@Godsdrummer, is it the exercise of authority or the seizing of preeminence that is at the heart of your chafing? I'm not trying to pick a fight, only trying to pinpoint where the actual issue originates from. For me, it is difficult to listen (and absorb what is taught) from someone who stands in the place that is not their place; conversely, when someone ministers from the place where God has set them, the anointing is clear and there is no contention.
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Originally Posted by Godsdrummer
Where do you see in scripture that God places people in our lives to perfect us? Ephesians 4 states that God gave gifts to the church not people in particular. within each group as needed these gifts come to the surface to equip (perfect) us to do OUR work of ministry. not for the work of the ministry. |
You have always stuck me as a student of the Word, knowing your scriptures. Here to you already know the answer. This is indeed talking about people called into those roles (apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors, teachers). They are called from within the body, but not all of the body can be placed into these roles.
1 Corinthians 12:27-28
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
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Originally Posted by Godsdrummer
There is no way that one man standing behind a pulpit trying to perfect all what he calls saints edifies the body of Christ. All that does is edify the man behind the pulpit.
In light of Jesus teaching in the verses above I have a hard time seeing how people can see the form of authority found in most Christian churches to be bible. It is much like Jesus scolding the pharises as whitened sepulchres but they did not recognize what they were doing wrong. We have been so developed into our traditions that when faced with something different that might be truth we can't see it.
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Again, is the issue exercise of authority or the seizing of preeminence?
Paul and Peter use terms like "rule" and "oversight", speaking clearly of a hierarchy of elders. Not a hierarchy of dominion, but a structure to teach, to cultivate, and to create an environment in which saints can grow, mature, flourish, and eventually become elders themselves.
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
1 Thessalonians 5:12-13
12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.
Contrasting with:
3 John 9-10
9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.