[Aquila]

Bro. Dave, you have some great points. I’ll share my thoughts.

Originally Posted by DaveC519

LOL Hmmm... how old are you, young man? If your pic is recent, you look about the age of one of my sons. And you've been married for how long? And you've counseled with married couples for how long?

I’m 34 and I was married 12 years. We attended an ultra-conservative church for 10 years that completely devastated us. We should have left earlier but didn’t out of a sense of loyalty to the elder and a terrorizing fear of being considered “rebellious” or “backslidden”. It’s a long and painful story. I would have never made it had I not had Jesus carrying me through.

I've been married for 27 years. And having spent the last several years in pastoral ministry counseling married couples, would you be interested in knowing what I've gleaned as the #1 problem facing marriage? That would be "individual needs" being asserted over "couple needs". It always boils down to that- always.

I don’t disagree, but I do see it a bit differently. Yes, the #1 problem facing marriage today is “individual needs” being asserted over “couples needs”. But why is this? Why does one partner suddenly begin asserting their needs over “couples needs”? I believe that when an individual’s needs (spiritual, emotional, physical) aren’t being met they can only go on so long before something breaks. Sadly, too many couples discover the unmet needs after they’ve festered and evolved into terrible conditions and/or circumstances. I don’t believe that in marriage we suddenly deny our individuality and become clones of one another. I also don’t believe that our individual needs suddenly become sinful and all must be sacrificed for the couple’s needs. In fact, I believe that there must be a balance. Neither one’s individual needs nor the needs of the couple should be neglected at the expense of the other. To neglect individual needs for the needs of the couple or to neglect the couple’s needs for the needs of the individual is a recipe for disaster.

When I was in the Army I was a Medic. I remember one of my first assignments with an Armored Cavalry unit. The tankers and scouts were hard at work out in the field sweating their guts out training. It was my ambulance’s job to supervise the training and responds to any medical emergency. While supervising training we sat in one of the ambulances. This ambulance had a radio, air-conditioning, plenty of water, plenty of food, litters to rest on if we became tired, a couple decks of cards, etc. Yes, we had a quite a few luxuries. I’d monitor those training and I felt kind of guilty. I turned to my sergeant and said, “I feel a little guilty sitting here in the air-conditioning while those soldiers are sweating their guts out.” The sergeant looked at me and said, “Specialist, let’s say you’re one of those guys and you get seriously hurt in training. Do you want a fresh, crisp, cool, calm, and collected medic responding to you….or do you want a tired and sweaty medic responding to you? By taking care of yourself…you’re taking care of them.”

I see where elements of this rings true for marriage. Individuals can’t always neglect their individual needs for the sake of the couple’s needs. I believe this applies to more than physical needs; it can be expanded into one’s spiritual and emotional needs too. Sometimes the individual needs of a person are neglected to the point that they start to spiritually, emotionally, or even physically hurt. It is at this point that they are weak and susceptible to temptations to sin. Take a spouse whose individual emotional needs have been neglected. They meet someone at work who seems to care. They will be more susceptible to falling into an emotional affair, or even a physical affair because their personal emotional needs were neglected. Neglect someone’s spiritual needs and watch as they become spiritually lethargic and backslide.

Yes, the unit (the coupling) has needs. But the coupling is comprised of individuals. I’ve seen couples wherein individual needs are denied. All too often it’s not at the expense of the “couple’s needs”, but meeting the entirety of the dominant parties personal needs. We’ve seen this in marriages where mom stayed married to dad through thick and then, abuse and betrayal…and though she’s miserable, strung out on anti-depressants, and life is void of any joy she remains by his side. Almost like a trapped animal. Meanwhile he’s still yelling at her to fetch him another beer while he eats cheese puffs in front of the television. If the individual’s needs are not met…the couple’s needs are not met. It’s like riding a bicycle with one or both tires flat. Imagine a car if you will, it has four tiers. Can you deny the needs of each individual tire and only work on the needs of the engine? No. You need to tend to BOTH the engine and the needs of the individual tires. You need to tend to both their needs as a couple and their needs as individuals.

There's a reason Scripture says that "two become one". Once two individuals become married, the two should grow together, not separately. Yes, individuals in marriage change over time, but the two should change together, and with the same focus in mind. This is especially true in Christian marriage. Marriage is a ministry. "How may I best serve my partner?", not "how can s/he best meet MY needs?", and if the needs aren't met to my satisfaction, then I have the RIGHT to see that they're met some other way, including meeting them myself.

That’s too simplistic to me. I agree as far as couples needing to grow together. But what often causes them to grow apart is neglect. When a spouse neglects their partner’s needs that partner will naturally grow towards where those needs can be met. That’s a given. We can argue if it’s right or if it’s wrong…but my point is that it will happen. You said that marriage is a ministry wherein we need to ask “How may I best serve my partner?” While I get your sentiment, I think the wording here illustrates an underlying issue. A spouse shouldn’t have to guess what their partner’s needs are. Both should be in such intimate communication that they voice their needs to one another openly, and each accepts the other unconditionally and seeks to meet the needs revealed. So where you present platitudes, I present a conversation. Both need to ask, “What are your needs and how can I meet them?” And both need to answer, “These are my needs and here’s how you can meet them.” Guessing games rarely work.

I think the unstated premise in your statements above is that individuals in a marriage have a right to sexual gratification. I don't believe Scripture teaches this. It does, however, outline some very specific parameters wherein sexual desire can be addressed, and that is within the marriage bond. Again, the focus is on the word marriage, which is a mutually shared experience.

I don’t separate one’s physical needs in this area from the person. I don’t see these needs or impulses as something to be denied, something filthy, or something unholy that needs to be reined in with marriage providing the only pressure release valve. I see this as one aspect of our nature. It is governed largely by hormones. For example, young adults seem to have a very hard time controlling these urges. A pastor in his 50’s or 60’s will demand they have more “willpower”. If he can overcome these urges…certainly they can. Right? PRAY PRAY PRAY. FAST FAST FAST. Ahhh…but the hormone levels are crazy in these young adults. The 60 year old pastor’s body isn’t going through anything like what they are. Where he thinks he’s achieved some sort of victory, the truth is, his body isn’t putting up much of a fight compared to the 22 year old college kid’s. Interestingly enough, I’ve talked with many elders who are two and three times my age. Many have the strict opinion you present here. But when I probed…they felt differently when they were younger. When they faced the raging hormones, changes, interest in girls (or boys if it’s a young lady), and had romance burning alive before them…they were no different than anyone else. They had the same behaviors. They weren’t so “spiritual”. Lol Many regularly took care of their own needs in their younger years. Now they don’t have such a strong urge too. Biology is taking a different course for them now. And so they think differently about it. They see the world through the lenses of their here and now. But if you could make them younger again, even with what they know now, they’d be no different. These human needs and behaviors are universal.

I see this aspect of our nature as part of a greater whole. I don’t know if you’ve read much about Dr. James Dobson’s position on this. But Dr. Dobson’s position and my position are nearly the same.

TO BE CONTINUED...