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Originally Posted by Praxeas
First of all, just because Luke 17 fails to mention the elect is no reason to take our magic markers and remove them from the text in math
I have not stuck with one thing and ignored another. I have examined the context of both Luke and Math and pointed out the differences grammatically
BTW the comparison wa not "taken" with "judgement", but "
to receive near, that is, associate with oneself
familiar or intimate act or relation)
to
to lift; by implication to take up or away
and to the noah event where the first thing that happend was Noah was entered into the Ark, separating him and his family from the sinners and the sinners are destroyed
but don't stop at Mat 24, continue on to Mat 25 where the 5 wise virgins are taken and the 5 foolish left behind.
BTW the first comparison was done by raven to compare those taken to those destroyed by the flood
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Here again is where you've linked a verb (paralambano) to only have a positive connotation by repeatedly giving a partial definition.
Raven, can speak of those in the field and mill being taken (in judgment) because Christ gives several other examples of other being taken in judgment (Noah, Lot's wife, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc.) yet your retort is that paralambano must have a positive connotation ...
seeking to solidify this with it meaning only a positive taking in relationship ...
quoting:
Quote:
to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation);
Mat 1:20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Mat 1:24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,
The difference is, in the flood the group are taken to be with the Lord (relationship)
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Yet ignoring other verses using the same verb where the receiving, or taking up, is not so positive but rather NEGATIVE.
Examples:
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Jesus taken to receive temptation
Mt 4:8 -
Again, the devil taketh him up (paralambano) into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Care to speak of an intimate relationship between the devil and Jesus?
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Jesus taken by soldiers to receive judgment:
Mt 27:27 -Then the soldiers of the governor took
(paralambano) Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers
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Jesus taken to receive punishment and crucifixion:
Joh 19:16 -
Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took (paralambano) Jesus, and led him away.
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Very safe to say that one can be "paralambano"ed to receive judgement.
Truth is paralambano can be translated as received, taken up as a neutral verb that depends on who and what will be doing the taking or receiving.
When Jesus is asked where will they be taken ... speaking of those taken in the field and mill ... it does not pair up with the traditional dispensationalist view.
Quote:
32Remember Lot's wife! 33Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."[d]
37" Where, Lord?" they asked.
He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather
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Praxeas, we can go in circles yet grammar and context ... hermeneutic betray your attempts to stay with a single or partial isolated meaning.
They're taken up to be judged and not to a very pleasant "place". I really don't like carcasses and vultures ... and if heaven has them ... I'm having second thoughts.