Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-03-2012, 10:01 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
Saved by Grace


 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
Glorying In Sin

It seems that among the AFF crowd here (and those with AFF roots who post primarly on FB) that there is almost a glorying in sin. A glorying in NOT being perfect and being at least a little worldly. These people tend to come across as condenscending towards those who seek to be seperated from the world.

Now listen, I'm not claiming to be perfect, in fact if I say that I have no sin, I make God a liar. I do sin, but I hate it. I don't just say "well nobodies perfect" or "don't judge me just because I sin differently than you", i.e. don't talk about my sin and I won't talk about yours. But my prayer is that God would continue the work of sanctification in my life, to open my eyes to my sin so that I recognize it, repent of it, and discontinue it. I want to live holy. Not just more good than bad, or know enough to be saved and then partake in things that are not beneficial because I am versed in the doctrines of grace. I pray that God will help me to live a life completely (not mostly) pleasing to Him. But I confess to sometimes feeling in the minority, and it can be slightly discouraging at times.

Why don't we care about true holiness anymore? Because many were hoodwinked and abused by authoratarian preachers who overstepped their biblical bounds and used the doctrine of seperation as a rod to beat the sheep? I'm the first to admit that many standards don't have solid (if any) biblical support, especially in the way they are presented (as laws, not principles). I'm the first to admit that most teaching on standards crosses the line and becomes legalism and salvation by works. I believe tha Pauls word in the latter half of Colossians 2 and latter part of 1 Timothy 1 apply to those who confidently assert what they do not know, desiring to be teachers of the law, and in doing so teach things which have the appearence of holiness in man made religion and denying the flesh, but also that the same things are powerless to actually change the heart. HOWEVER..........

The doctrine of seperation from the world is extremely Biblical. In several epistles Paul exhorts the believers to live a life worthy of the Lord. To live a life of defined by godliness. That if anyone desnt teach accordingly he "knows nothing." James says true religion is amongst other things to "keep oneself unspotted from the world" and John reminds us, though well known, it is widey disregarded, "love not the world, neither the things that are in the world" and yet it seems like Christians (especially former apostolics) glory in their freedom to cuss, to entertain themselves with all manner of worldly material, whether movies, music, leisure.

I don't get it. I realize I'm on the opposite track as some of these people, because all their childhood (and even into adulthood) they didn't watch tv, didn't listen to secular music, didn't experience the world, and now that their eyes have been opened to "grace" they "are free to do all these things" (ref. Jeremiah 7). But that's not biblical grace! Biblical grace that bring salvation teaches us to DENY ungodliness and worldy lusts (see Titus 2:11-14), not indulge in these thing, even in "moderation." I wasn't raised in church, my whole life was consumed with worldliness, I lived in most of the sins listed in the NT (Romans 1:28-32, 1 Cor 6:9-10, Col 3 :5-8, 1 John 2:15, etc) and I can not for the life of me understand what any christian would want to do with the world. What does the world offer you? What do you find so attractive? What do you think you will find? I'll tell you, you'l never find it. Those who think they have liberty could find one day their liberty carried them to far. In excercising their "freedom" they end up in bondage. But will most of them hear? No. Instead people who speak up for holiness and separation are met with shouts of "legalist", "weaker brother", etc.

Anyway, I'm done with my rant, just sayin, I don't understand why so many seem so eager to immerse themselves in this godless culture. ~Jason
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards

"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship

"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-03-2012, 11:50 PM
Michael The Disciple's Avatar
Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,650
Re: Glorying In Sin

Good topic. People have heard holiness slammed for so long they have no strength left to oppose this. They have accepted the Protestant Evangelical perversions concerning grace and the teaching of being "in him".

Also please understand that the Protestant version of 1 John 1:8 has caused even people who are living free from sin to think they have to confess they have sin even if they dont. The right understanding of it agrees with all the rest of Johns writings and changes everything. It leaves us no exuse to fall short of the only standard Yeshua has given his disciples.

Be you therefore perfect even as the Father in Heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-04-2012, 12:53 AM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
Re: Glorying In Sin

Holiness slammed? You mean standards?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:01 AM
Michael The Disciple's Avatar
Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,650
Re: Glorying In Sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Holiness slammed? You mean standards?
To me holiness has NEVER meant "standards" as in must shave or never trim. Holiness is separation to the person and will of Yeshua.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:06 AM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
Re: Glorying In Sin

So can someone give me an example of holiness being slammed here?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-04-2012, 06:36 AM
UnTraditional's Avatar
UnTraditional UnTraditional is offline
Loving God, His Word, His Name


 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 861
Re: Glorying In Sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
So can someone give me an example of holiness being slammed here?
Can you give us an example of a thread where godliness is exalted without someone coming on and labeling it legalism?
__________________
-All over the world, I see Apostolic revival and reformation breaking forth. We are seeing the end time dichotomy, both the falling away and great revival. May it continue throughout the lands.
Bro. William M. Price

Apostolic Defender Ministries
The Apostolic Defender Podcast on Spotify
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-04-2012, 08:58 AM
KeptByTheWord's Avatar
KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
On the road less traveled


 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: On a mountain... somewhere
Posts: 8,369
Re: Glorying In Sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
To me holiness has NEVER meant "standards" as in must shave or never trim. Holiness is separation to the person and will of Yeshua.
AMEN!!!

Holiness is much much than the "standards" .... because you can easily accomodate those fleshly things.

And... how much more difficult it is to keep holiness of heart than a standard of dress... so this is really what Jesus was teaching, inward holiness. For when the heart is holy, it will be manifested in the outward appearance in ways that will set it apart from the rest of the world that we live in. Holiness was NEVER meant to be mandated, but it was to change us as directed from the Holy Spirit living within us.

I think I have a higher standard of heart living now that I have left the Pentecostal ranks than before. Things that I would do then without thinking twice, now leave me feeling that the Lord would not be pleased. Before I would think... the preacher or pastor or my parents would not be pleased... now, my first thought is, what would the Lord Jesus think of this!

Wow! Completely revolutionizes what you do, say, and think when you allow the Lord Jesus into your heart and hold up your activities before HIS eyes to see if He is pleased.

I believe this is true holiness of heart. Walking to please the Lord Jesus in all things, and not trying to be a cookie cutter, look-alike man-pleasing Christian.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:30 AM
Michael The Disciple's Avatar
Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,650
Re: Glorying In Sin

Any teaching that says the saints need not be perfect is slamming holiness imo.

We shall see what Jason means when he returns. I have noticed what he is talking about many times over.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-04-2012, 12:05 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
Re: Glorying In Sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Any teaching that says the saints need not be perfect is slamming holiness imo.

We shall see what Jason means when he returns. I have noticed what he is talking about many times over.
So if someone disagrees with you that we need to be perfect they are slamming holiness?


Are you perfect?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:52 PM
Michael The Disciple's Avatar
Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,650
Re: Glorying In Sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
So if someone disagrees with you that we need to be perfect they are slamming holiness?


Are you perfect?
If someone disagrees with Christ about the standard being perfection they are perverting his word.

Be ye perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

Am I perfect? Dont look to men Prax. If I am not perfect would that excuse someone else from not being perfect? No. It would just mean that I was not living the normal Christian life Yeshua expects.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 09-04-2012 at 02:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Glorying in the Flesh Jabez Fellowship Hall 1 07-06-2012 10:17 AM
Sin Study--Be Sin Free and Make the Devil Pay For Sheila Deep Waters 2 02-27-2012 10:28 PM
Is it a sin... Timmy Fellowship Hall 73 03-13-2010 09:08 AM
What is sin? mizpeh Fellowship Hall 0 06-14-2009 02:07 PM
Original Sin/Ancestral Sin Brother Price Fellowship Hall 209 06-25-2008 11:22 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.