When is prayer effective?

[shazeep]

We tend to run to 'prayer' as a problem solving device; naturally enough, i would say. However, i'm currently studying under a pastor who maintains that prayer is often not what is needed, and cannot help in many situations. Thoughts?

[KeptByTheWord]

Would have to know more about what he thinks. Sounds suspicious, as prayer certainly was something even Jesus had to do, even the night before he died, he prayed all night. I would be very suspicious of someone who said a follower of Christ need not pray, although I don't know if that is what you are referring to. More information about his thoughts would be necessary.

[shazeep]

Not that one should not pray, no; but that prayer is often accepted as the cure, if you will, possibly often to the detriment of faith/rest. And interesting that you mention that passage, as i think we poorly understand it; was Christ really asking God if He could take a pass on the whole Saviour thing, as it translates? I don't think so; God is the head of Christ. So, what is this prayer really saying? But this is not meant to refute always in prayer by any means, i don't think.

This teaching only comes in pieces, but i'll work up a synopsis. Meanwhile, i had hoped to get some feedback from others as to when or if prayer might be ineffective as a problem solving method; and Scripture even provides some direct quotes along these lines.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by shazeep

We tend to run to 'prayer' as a problem solving device; naturally enough, i would say. However, i'm currently studying under a pastor who maintains that prayer is often not what is needed, and cannot help in many situations. Thoughts?

I'm trying to think of a scripture which may suggest a circumstance where prayer would be unnecessary, inappropriate, or ineffective. I'm drawing a blank.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

I'm trying to think of a scripture which may suggest a circumstance where prayer would be unnecessary, inappropriate, or ineffective. I'm drawing a blank.

I think that would be when God told someone not to pray.

Jeremiah 7:16 says, "Pray no more for these people, Jeremiah. Do not weep or pray for them, and don't beg me to help them, for I will not listen to you."

Jeremiah 11:14 says, "Pray no more for these people, Jeremiah. Do not weep or pray for them, for I will not listen to them when they cry out to me in distress."

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I think that would be when God told someone not to pray.

Jeremiah 7:16 says, "Pray no more for these people, Jeremiah. Do not weep or pray for them, and don't beg me to help them, for I will not listen to you."

Jeremiah 11:14 says, "Pray no more for these people, Jeremiah. Do not weep or pray for them, for I will not listen to them when they cry out to me in distress."

Ah yes, as well as 1Jn 5:16. These would be exceptions, though, wouldn't they?

I was thinking along the lines of the premise in the opening post, that:

prayer is often not what is needed, and cannot help in many situation

(emphasis mine)

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

I was thinking along the lines of the premise in the opening post, that:

(emphasis mine)

Yep, you're right about that!

[shazeep]

yup, that's 2 (or maybe one reiterated?); there's another at the end of 1Sam8, and some others; but, having absorbed this concept over the last 2 years or so, i have to say that i am now getting more from reading between the lines of Christ's prayer, above, et al.

[shazeep]

ah, ok, just found Larry Wood's study on this. His model is somewhat unique, and has some unique, although generally intuitive, terminology.

http://www.biblenews1.com/grace/gracea.htm#Problem Solving Device

either add "...Solving Device" back into the link, or just scroll about 90% down the page.

i will say that i am 'spoiling' this, due to the higher maturity level of most Christians here; so i hope that too much of the impact is not lost. If you wonder why prayer does not seem to be effective in a situation, this may provide some answers.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ah, ok, just found Larry Wood's study on this. His model is somewhat unique, and has some unique, although generally intuitive, terminology.

http://www.biblenews1.com/grace/gracea.htm#Problem Solving Device

either add "...Solving Device" back into the link, or just scroll about 90% down the page.

i will say that i am 'spoiling' this, due to the higher maturity level of most Christians here; so i hope that too much of the impact is not lost. If you wonder why prayer does not seem to be effective in a situation, this may provide some answers.

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