Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-05-2020, 02:03 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,194
That's not Preaching!!

I have done some research about it and I came to the conclusion that we have redefined the word "preaching" and as result "teaching", so you end up with misconceptions when you read the Bible.

The two conclusions I came up with that may be shocking to some are these:

* Preaching (κηρύσσω or εὐαγγελίζω or μαρτύριον): it is to the ones that have not obeyed the true Gospel, and it is about proclaiming aloud the Gospel of Christ and the Coming of the Kingdom. It announcing clear and aloud an event that will happen, is happening, or had happened. In the context of the New Testament is the Gospel. It is not used to describe the discourse to the Church: you don't preach to the church! (don't stone me please ).

* Teaching: explains something, and in the context of the Bible, targeted not to just inform the head, but to transform the heart. That's what you do to the Church.

* Exhorting: that.


The result of this confusion has caused people to misunderstand teaching tremendously. They try to define it and they end up with misconceptions as this: preaching is to the heart, teaching to the mind; preaching is yelling, teaching is telling, preaching is proclaiming the truth, teaching is explaining the truth (this one is close). Another result of this misunderstanding is that teaching for some has become an informational class, about theology, but little about transforming hearts, neglecting it to the point of becoming secondary in some congregations. I have also noticed mistranslations because of the same misconception: e.g. translating the greek word for "exhort" as "preach".

So in the context of the New Testament: Preaching is announcing the Gospel to the ones that don't know it, Teaching and exhorting is what you do to the congregation.



Now, there is one single verse that many like to use to keep saying that "preaching" refers to all public speaking of the word including the Church assembly:

[2Ti 4:2 NKJV] 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season [and] out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

Since preaching in the rest of the NT always relates to the lost, could it be that this "preach the word" simply means "preach the word of the gospel to the lost"? I think so. I think Paul is simply encouraging Timothy in a broad sense: church, and lost. Why? Let's see the context:

[2Ti 4:2-5 NKJV] 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season [and] out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Notice a mix of the subject of teaching with evangelism. Paul was talking in a broad sense, not just about his service to an assembly.

You need the right orthodoxy to have the right orthopraxis. That being said, the redefinition of "preaching" is already with us, but let's not fall into the trap of neglecting or mispresenting teaching to others because we can't define it after preaching has been redefined!

What are your thoughts?

Last edited by coksiw; 05-05-2020 at 03:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-05-2020, 02:23 PM
n david n david is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,807
Re: That's not Preaching!!



Sound and well articulated post. No stoning from me. It's clear there is a difference and that difference isn't what many think it is.

I agree with your view of 2 Timothy 4:2 relating to the Gospel and the lost.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-05-2020, 07:44 PM
votivesoul's Avatar
votivesoul votivesoul is offline
Administrator


 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 5,503
Re: That's not Preaching!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
I have done some research about it and I came to the conclusion that we have redefined the word "preaching" and as result "teaching", so you end up with misconceptions when you read the Bible.

The two conclusions I came up with that may be shocking to some are these:

* Preaching (κηρύσσω or εὐαγγελίζω or μαρτύριον): it is to the ones that have not obeyed the true Gospel, and it is about proclaiming aloud the Gospel of Christ and the Coming of the Kingdom. It announcing clear and aloud an event that will happen, is happening, or had happened. In the context of the New Testament is the Gospel. It is not used to describe the discourse to the Church: you don't preach to the church! (don't stone me please ).

* Teaching: explains something, and in the context of the Bible, targeted not to just inform the head, but to transform the heart. That's what you do to the Church.

* Exhorting: that.


The result of this confusion has caused people to misunderstand teaching tremendously. They try to define it and they end up with misconceptions as this: preaching is to the heart, teaching to the mind; preaching is yelling, teaching is telling, preaching is proclaiming the truth, teaching is explaining the truth (this one is close). Another result of this misunderstanding is that teaching for some has become an informational class, about theology, but little about transforming hearts, neglecting it to the point of becoming secondary in some congregations. I have also noticed mistranslations because of the same misconception: e.g. translating the greek word for "exhort" as "preach".

So in the context of the New Testament: Preaching is announcing the Gospel to the ones that don't know it, Teaching and exhorting is what you do to the congregation.



Now, there is one single verse that many like to use to keep saying that "preaching" refers to all public speaking of the word including the Church assembly:

[2Ti 4:2 NKJV] 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season [and] out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

Since preaching in the rest of the NT always relates to the lost, could it be that this "preach the word" simply means "preach the word of the gospel to the lost"? I think so. I think Paul is simply encouraging Timothy in a broad sense: church, and lost. Why? Let's see the context:

[2Ti 4:2-5 NKJV] 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season [and] out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Notice a mix of the subject of teaching with evangelism. Paul was talking in a broad sense, not just about his service to an assembly.

You need the right orthodoxy to have the right orthopraxis. That being said, the redefinition of "preaching" is already with us, but let's not fall into the trap of neglecting or mispresenting teaching to others because we can't define it after preaching has been redefined!

What are your thoughts?
Well done, good and faithful servant.

About the connection to evangelism and preaching in 2 Timothy, note, too, the reference to those who refuse to endure sound doctrine. Because they won't listen to healthy teaching, they forfeit their souls and become lost, and need once again to hear the Gospel preached.
__________________
For anyone devoted to His fear:

http://votivesoul.wordpress.com/
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-06-2020, 08:37 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,075
Re: That's not Preaching!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Well done, good and faithful servant.

About the connection to evangelism and preaching in 2 Timothy, note, too, the reference to those who refuse to endure sound doctrine. Because they won't listen to healthy teaching, they forfeit their souls and become lost, and need once again to hear the Gospel preached.
I have grown weary of much of so-called "Pentecostal PREACHING." All we hear about is who the best "preacher" is with little emphasis on teaching people how to be students of the word. The doctrinal ignorance of people that have been Pentecostal for much of their life is appalling. But hey, as long as the theatrics are good, we'll keep calling it "Pentecostal."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-07-2020, 12:10 AM
votivesoul's Avatar
votivesoul votivesoul is offline
Administrator


 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 5,503
Re: That's not Preaching!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
I have grown weary of much of so-called "Pentecostal PREACHING." All we hear about is who the best "preacher" is with little emphasis on teaching people how to be students of the word. The doctrinal ignorance of people that have been Pentecostal for much of their life is appalling. But hey, as long as the theatrics are good, we'll keep calling it "Pentecostal."
Theatrics are found wherever church is otherwise boring. Liturgy and wash, rinse, repeat style meetings suck the life out of saints. So, the last chance to liven things up is when it's time to "preach". It's a one-trick pony kind of show.
__________________
For anyone devoted to His fear:

http://votivesoul.wordpress.com/
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-07-2020, 08:08 PM
Michael The Disciple's Avatar
Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,650
Re: That's not Preaching!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Theatrics are found wherever church is otherwise boring. Liturgy and wash, rinse, repeat style meetings suck the life out of saints. So, the last chance to liven things up is when it's time to "preach". It's a one-trick pony kind of show.
And when the theatrical preaching gets stale some turn to magic for entertainment. A downward spiral.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-08-2020, 04:46 AM
diakonos's Avatar
diakonos diakonos is offline
New User


 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Northwest Zion
Posts: 3,316
Re: That's not Preaching!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
And when the theatrical preaching gets stale some turn to magic for entertainment. A downward spiral.
Stupid.
__________________
“Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos.”
-Homer Simpson//
SAVE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP
BUY WAR BONDS
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-08-2020, 12:18 PM
n david n david is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,807
Re: That's not Preaching!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
And when the theatrical preaching gets stale some turn to magic for entertainment. A downward spiral.


Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-08-2020, 01:31 AM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,884
Re: That's not Preaching!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Theatrics are found wherever church is otherwise boring. Liturgy and wash, rinse, repeat style meetings suck the life out of saints. So, the last chance to liven things up is when it's time to "preach". It's a one-trick pony kind of show.
Part of the problem is mainstream Pentecostal meetings are often no longer Pentecostal. The pew sitters' only contribution is often to clap when expected, stand, sit, amen, shout, and jump, on cue, and put money in the plate. As a result, the platformers become performers, putting on a show, and the pew sitters come to expect a good event. They want their money's worth, so the pressure is on to provide the "best music" and the "best worship experience" and the "best preaching" along with auxillary services like a good women's meeting, a good men's fellowship, and fun and games and sports for the kids, something for the seniors, the singles, the 20 somethings, 30 somethings, etc etc.

Pentecost gets programmed right out of the meeting in many cases.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-08-2020, 03:24 AM
votivesoul's Avatar
votivesoul votivesoul is offline
Administrator


 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 5,503
Re: That's not Preaching!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Part of the problem is mainstream Pentecostal meetings are often no longer Pentecostal. The pew sitters' only contribution is often to clap when expected, stand, sit, amen, shout, and jump, on cue, and put money in the plate. As a result, the platformers become performers, putting on a show, and the pew sitters come to expect a good event. They want their money's worth, so the pressure is on to provide the "best music" and the "best worship experience" and the "best preaching" along with auxillary services like a good women's meeting, a good men's fellowship, and fun and games and sports for the kids, something for the seniors, the singles, the 20 somethings, 30 somethings, etc etc.

Pentecost gets programmed right out of the meeting in many cases.
__________________
For anyone devoted to His fear:

http://votivesoul.wordpress.com/
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Preaching the Atonement Esaias Fellowship Hall 4 11-26-2013 05:48 AM
Still Preaching. Scott Hutchinson Fellowship Hall 9 01-17-2013 07:54 AM
Preaching again! Neck Fellowship Hall 27 11-27-2007 09:28 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.