Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 12-16-2010, 03:50 PM
Cindy's Avatar
Cindy Cindy is offline
Forever Loved Admin


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 26,537
Re: Did 1st century christian women "stand out"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
I have a hard time with the way some people think...The first church may have been different in a lot of ways...however it was their LOVE that drew attention to them if anything did....
I agree.
And yet, we want to debate and have great orators. Get puffed up with ourselves, rather than humble ourselves for Jesus Christ.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 12-16-2010, 04:50 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
Re: Did 1st century christian women "stand out"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Right. And the bible never said we are known by the way we dress, anyway, but by our love for one another. How people gravitate to this "they will know us by the way we dress" idea never ceases to amaze me in light of Jesus' plain statement that our love is for that purpose.

My 14 year old daughter was asked by some standard-keeping friends what it was that makes our church different from their's, since we are both one God and Acts 2:38. She responded in an amazingly wise manner: "We believe our love for one another tells the world who we are, not the way we dress."
Exactly, by THIS shall all know you are my disciples..that you love one another. Given that standard I have to conclude very few of us really are his disciples though
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 12-16-2010, 04:52 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
Re: Did 1st century christian women "stand out"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
I still believe dress is important, but not extreme as some have made it. Actually, clothes is the easy part, now love your enemies is getting somewhere.
I believe how we dress is important and I am convinced a woman can dress modestly and still not stand out in a crowd because of how she dresses or appears necessarily

I also find it rather sad that the only way people can know we are His is by how our women appear? So men don't appear like Christians but women do?

While many feel this is unfair to put all these standards on women, I also feel it feminizes the church just as HMH does too
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 12-16-2010, 04:53 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
Re: Did 1st century christian women "stand out"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
No, they would have been detained and possibly killed like most other Christians during Christianities infancy.
Exactly!
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 12-16-2010, 06:21 PM
Jermyn Davidson's Avatar
Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In His Hands
Posts: 13,919
Re: Did 1st century christian women "stand out"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
It isn't because the preachers are wanting women to stand out and men to not stand out.

(Bracing for the grief I'll receive for this one)

It's that women of the world are dressing in such a manner that modesty stands out on it's own.

A man dressing modestly doesn't stand out in this world. If the majority of men began wearing skirts. dresses or otherwise clothed themselves in a manner that showed off their bodies... then we would.

A modestly dressed woman, in this day and age, tends to stand out.
Awesome post!
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:39 PM
*AQuietPlace*'s Avatar
*AQuietPlace* *AQuietPlace* is offline
Love God, Love Your Neighbor


 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,363
Re: Did 1st century christian women "stand out"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
It isn't because the preachers are wanting women to stand out and men to not stand out.

(Bracing for the grief I'll receive for this one)

It's that women of the world are dressing in such a manner that modesty stands out on it's own.

A man dressing modestly doesn't stand out in this world. If the majority of men began wearing skirts. dresses or otherwise clothed themselves in a manner that showed off their bodies... then we would.

A modestly dressed woman, in this day and age, tends to stand out.

I get your point, and it's true that women tend to dress immodestly more often than men....

But the thing is... it's not necessary to follow Pentecostal 'standards' to dress modestly. The women I work with pretty much all dress modestly - and very few of them follow the Pentecostal guidelines (well, none of them to be precise). Casting my mind quickly over the group, out of about 20 women I can only think of one that dresses in a way that would cause men to do a double-take. Oh, and she almost always wears a skirt.

So that does bring us back full-circle to 'why are the women the ones who have all the dress standards' question.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 12-17-2010, 07:10 AM
Sister Alvear's Avatar
Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
Sister Alvear


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 27,042
Re: Did 1st century christian women "stand out"?

I believe in modestly...however some of the dress I see is not modest it is show off...if we want to be modest...then be modest....(welll just my thoughts) That is simple and easy...we do not have to look like the Amish ( no offence) we can look neat and nice without spending hundreds of dollars...
__________________
Monies to help us may be sent to P.O. Box 797, Jonesville, La 71343.

If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
Facebook Janice LaVaun Taylor Alvear

Last edited by Sister Alvear; 12-17-2010 at 08:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 12-17-2010, 07:21 AM
KeptByTheWord's Avatar
KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
On the road less traveled


 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: On a mountain... somewhere
Posts: 8,369
Re: Did 1st century christian women "stand out"?

Here's my two cents worth on this heavy question... 'why are the women the ones who have all the dress standards' question.

First of all, woman was created FOR the man. I Cor. 11:8 "For the man is not of the woman; but the woman FOR THE MAN." And if we back up one verse to 1 Cor. 11:7 it says, "but the woman is the glory of the man"

It has been so, since Adam and Eve were created, that a woman has always sought to please and be the "glory of the man.” Whether we women want to admit it or not, pleasing the opposite sex is something that comes very natural to us by taking special time and effort with our appearance. Most importantly, it should be our husband that we are seeking to please. In that case, a wife wanting to be pleasing to her husband, should dress herself in such a way that she would be the "glory of the man." 1 Cor. 11:7

Now, man, meaning males, have realized also, that because of the headship and order that Christ has laid out for the church - God, Christ, man and then woman - that the women are more accustomed to being subjected to authority, in a generalized way of speaking. So if women would truly seek to dress in such a way that would bring glory to the man/husband, and to Christ, then we wouldn't have any problem with the immodest world we are dealing with today.

Back in the early days of the holiness/Pentecost movement, sincere men wanted to protect the honor of their wives and females in their congregations, after seeing the dangerous turn the fashionable society at that time was taking, with women beginning to dress in a way that showed more and more of their body. I believe these men honestly were seeking to determine exactly how to enact a standard of dress to keep modesty the focal point.

That sincere desire, I believe, has led to the mess we are in today, because the tradition has been taught, over several decades, and the true meaning behind those rules has been lost. If we were to go back and see just why these rules began in the first place we would see that the original intent of the early founding fathers of the holiness Pentecostal movement was to protect their women from the onset of a society as a whole basically beginning to “take off their clothes.” If you read any literature from the 1920s and 1930s it was not uncommon to see women beginning to wear makeup, wear less clothing, and even put on clothing that had typically been for males only.

So we have arrived here today where the question of modesty is a totally different look than it was 40, 50, 60, or 70 years ago and the turn of the 19th century. I know the clothes I wear today are not the same as what I wore twenty years ago. So, what is modesty? How does one determine if you are modest as clothing styles change? This question continues to be debated, and probably ever will be.

Important point I am trying to make is that we have got to learn that the basic principle of modesty never changes, even with styles and fashions. I may change exactly what I put on my body to cover my nakedness, but if God cared enough to sew animal skins for Adam and Eve to cover their bodies after their shame and sin had entered the world, then he must care that his believers not uncover our nakedness to the world around us. What exactly is nakedness? How to determine that? That is where the Holy Ghost comes in. Jesus said, the Holy Ghost would be our teacher, and would lead and guide us into all truth! John 14:26

And, it should be up to the MAN under CHRIST to set the rules for his family according to how his family should dress. Using the proper headship, with pastor/bishop/elder/preacher nowhere in this headship lineup, then a woman who wants to bring glory to her husband, will accordingly dress, and ACT in such a way as to be pleasing to both her husband and to Christ, asking the Holy Ghost to teach and guide.

The woman is subject to more rules and demands than the man simply because of our God-given nature to please the opposite sex and the order of the headship. We are taught to be submissive to our husbands, but that our husband is to love us as Christ loves the church. When all this is in place, this works in perfect harmony. I have seen many such marriages where this was possible. Submission is definitely a tricky issue and if not carried out with complete submission to God first, then it can result in terrible things. I’ve seen those kind of marriages too!

So, you have woman who naturally desires to please the opposite sex, and then you have the male desire to look upon a woman, which desires are God-given. So, woman’s natural desire to please the opposite sex can easily become used in a way that could be considered sensual, provocative, and even harlotry in the end. This is where modesty has to play a huge role. If women begin to dress in such a way to please men other than our husband, and to draw and attract undue attention to ourselves, and in doing so, begin to uncover more and more of our body, then something has gone wrong with the heart. Unless the husband actively communicates with his wife/family about issues of modesty, dress, and conduct, then the rules will continue to be laid down by the pastors of churches in an effort to somehow stop the overflow of the sensual world into the church.

This is where, I believe, the men of our day have failed in their homes. To recognize the onslaught of nudity and where it takes them, and to ask God for direction and how to keep it from destroying their home/family.

This is heavy stuff. This is hard to swallow. I know I’ll probably be “quoted” and misquoted on some of this. Please understand the spirit that I am writing this in though.

I’m a woman. I want to please my husband. And I DON’T like all the rules that have been imposed on the woman in the holiness movement because many of them are excessive and heavy-handed, and simply the desire of man to control the women, and have nothing to do with modesty.

Yet, after much careful study and prayer about the issue, I’ve come to realize that because of a woman’s desire to look pleasing in the eye of the opposite sex, that this desire oftentimes can get out of control, and the idea of modesty and covering up nakedness can be forgotten. If you don’t believe me, look at our world today. Nakedness everywhere you look. Homes and families are broken, and more and more people are turning to the occult, and to drugs and alcohol, and than ever before. Sexual promiscuity self destructs ultimately. Of course, you cannot say that is not the only problem with our current world. But it is one of them for sure.

Under the authority given to the overseers/bishops/elders by Paul, they are cautioned to warn, and reprove and exhort the saints. I also believe that husbands, under the leadership of Christ himself, should take authority in their homes, and enact rules of dress/modesty. Their authority is biblical, according to the headship outlined by Paul. The rulers of the church should also warn about the dangers they see lurking in their congregations, which may include provocative behavior, pride, vanity, and the list goes on, but nowhere is it stressed should they lay out certain limitations of clothing/dress.

The purpose of the overseers of the church should be for the edifying of the saints, teaching them basic principles upon which those principles understood, then can be applied in each one’s individual life/home. If principles of modesty were taught, allowing the HUSBAND to be the ruler of his home, under Christ, then pastors/bishops/elders would not have to spend time on the “standards” but would simply teach principles of modesty, and have each family endeavor to put those principles in place under the leadership of the true leader of the home, the man.

I know we are not living in a perfect world, and there is no perfect answer to this question, but biblically, the above paragraph describes how this modesty issue should work.

You may ask me – so how does it work for you? Well, I am so thankful to say that I have a wonderful husband who loves me and shows his love for me in many ways. One of those ways is to tell me if I have something on that could be too tight, too revealing, or whatever. Sometimes its hard to see yourself, and know how something really looks. He always shares with me too how wonderful I look whenever it is pleasing to him. I seek to please my husband. I don’t want to uncover my nakedness to anyone other than him. Modesty comes from the heart, and is evidenced by one’s actions. It is truly a heart issue, of pleasing God first, and then my husband.

I know this has been a lengthy post, and I know I’ve raised plenty of issues that are sensitive to all of us. My desire here is to try to somehow address the issue of the holiness and modesty, and ultimately the only answer we have for sure is to go back to God’s Word for the direction we need for our lives today. And that brings us back full circle to LOVE. For that is the greatest commandment of all, is to love God with our hearts, soul, mind, and strength! Matthew 22:37
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 12-17-2010, 07:21 AM
Digging4Truth's Avatar
Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
Still Figuring It Out.


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,858
Re: Did 1st century christian women "stand out"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
I get your point, and it's true that women tend to dress immodestly more often than men....

But the thing is... it's not necessary to follow Pentecostal 'standards' to dress modestly. The women I work with pretty much all dress modestly - and very few of them follow the Pentecostal guidelines (well, none of them to be precise). Casting my mind quickly over the group, out of about 20 women I can only think of one that dresses in a way that would cause men to do a double-take. Oh, and she almost always wears a skirt.

So that does bring us back full-circle to 'why are the women the ones who have all the dress standards' question.
We all have dress standards. Imagine if a man came wearing a shirt with the length of sleeves that many women wear to church (Often just over the top of the shoulder down to elbow length) and wearing pants at the length that many women wear (knee length). He'd look more like he was dressed in modest beach wear than dressed for church. These lengths are regularly accepted for women in many churches but would never be accepted for men.

I don't think it is as much an issue that women are "the ones who have all the dress codes". I think it is more an issue that women are the ones who have issue with the dress codes.

There are areas of all of our lives where we tend to butt heads with standards more than in other areas. Women want to dress up, dress out and show themselves as a natural tendency (apparently from what I have observed) so this is an area that they are always at odds with and so it seems like they tables are heavy in their direction.

Men could care less about these things and so it isn't a big issue. It isn't that women are "the ones" targeted. It's that this is an area that hits closer to home.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 12-17-2010, 07:29 AM
Digging4Truth's Avatar
Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
Still Figuring It Out.


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,858
Re: Did 1st century christian women "stand out"?

I'd like to say that I am speaking to this issue in general terms. That are more specific issues I have seen raised here that are very valid. Wearing a skirt doesn't assure holiness or modesty. One can wear a skirt in a fashion that would make a pant wearin' women blush with shame.

Modesty is about so many things other than dress and I surely recognize this. I just feel that statements such as women are the ones who have ALL the dress codes is skewed and fails to take in the whole picture.

At the end of the day... this doesn't mean that there aren't standards out there brought on by a man with a King complex (and I know that there are PLENTY of them out there too). These are the areas where men need more oversight and teaching in their lives as this is a tendency of man and he should be taught to have that tendency tempered by the wise and Holy ways of a living God.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Late Dottie Rambo's stand against "INCLUSIONISM" mfblume Fellowship Hall 11 08-29-2010 09:35 AM
State of tHe Average "Christian" Gods_Chosen_85 The Tab 10 07-23-2010 07:45 PM
"Women Drivers" We Salute You! Ron Fellowship Hall 4 11-19-2008 03:23 PM
Bill Gaither and "Christian Homosexuals" stmatthew Fellowship Hall 13 06-28-2008 02:50 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.