Hate Of Reformed Theology

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Yet, scriptures are quite clear (and abundant) that not all will be saved.

The significance of the Gospel -- and mission of the Church -- is lost in the above context as well.

It is the very same context as "Reformed", it only extends the context to ALL.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Here is a message by a man named Paul Washer that may shed some light on the discussion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shxQcczYuAA

I've always gotten the vibes of Washer as a moralist. At least the Moralists love him.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Socialite

The Romans 1 "rejecting of God," which indicts us all, is far different than the Gracious Father himself summoning us with Good News and a pardon.

I agree about the choosing -- though I maintain it's such a small role when viewed in the Story.

The Gracious Father summons all with Good News and a Pardon.


People flatly reject Him, His Good News and our pardon, often.



The lusts of the flesh and of the eyes, and the pride of life are very effective blinders.

[UnTraditional]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I've always gotten the vibes of Washer as a moralist. At least the Moralists love him.

All I have ever gotten was great preaching which encourages a believer to discern their lives and see if they are in agreement with scripture.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Here is a message by a man named Paul Washer that may shed some light on the discussion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shxQcczYuAA

The only light he will shed is "reformed Calvinistic" light.

After you have listened to Washer, try readind some of Roger Olsen's blog for a different perspective.


http://rogereolson.com/2010/12/17/a-...-uli-of-tulip/


http://rogereolson.com/2010/08/30/go...f-limitations/

http://rogereolson.com/2010/10/13/wh...ppose-and-why/

http://rogereolson.com/2010/11/28/ar...ered-theology/

And finally for Crakjak:

http://rogereolson.com/2010/12/10/ca...-universalism/

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The Gracious Father summons all with Good News and a Pardon.


People flatly reject Him, His Good News and our pardon, often.



The lusts of the flesh and of the eyes, and the pride of life are very effective blinders.

Yes, so effective that they have left us crippled. Crippled, in fact, to the point where we are incapable of hearing God, responding to Him or even considering Him without the intervention of the Spirit.

I'm not sure that the Father intimately summons all with a direct call. I'm not sure I see that in the Story. The prior posts I pasted sort of address that as well.

Neither am I sure people reject the Good News often. a) They either have never really heard the good news (it was confused with moralism, religiosity, etc) 2) Were never really drawn by the Spirit.

Telling someone the Story doesn't even mean that they are being drawn by the Spirit. It's just a natural, flesh-like tale otherwise. It's information. It's a moral exercise. It only sets us free when the Spirit is involved. This is why I don't tell the Gospel to everyone I meet --- standing on the corner with a bullhorn. I look for "Gospel opportunities." Which are all around me! This is what I believe "casting your pearls before swine is about." It sounds horrendous, because people view it as calling others pigs, but that's not really it. I digress....


When God chooses us... when God comes to us... he speaks beyond the pollution of the flesh.

[Acoustic]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Why would a all powerful, and God that is LOVE, create billions of humans that are deserving of Hell, "from the womb", and I speak of hell in the traditional sense of a place of torment?

I believe our understanding of God and His intentions is very distorted.

That He would allow all humanity to experience evil, and condemnation, is understandable only in the context of His eventual redemption of all His creation.

Theology is human attempts to define the Almighty, unfortunately, these attempts are very skewed, by the limitations and carnality of man.

Yes mankind does have distorted understanding of God hence all the idolatry in the world. But He gave us the Bible so we would have and understanding of his character and intentions.

One thing that is very obvious is that God is not just LOVE. While he very definitely is he is also Just and Holy and Righteous, Merciful and Kind to name a few of his characteristics.


SDG

[UnTraditional]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The only light he will shed is "reformed Calvinistic" light.

After you have listened to Washer, try readind some of Roger Olsen's blog for a different perspective.


http://rogereolson.com/2010/12/17/a-...-uli-of-tulip/


http://rogereolson.com/2010/08/30/go...f-limitations/

http://rogereolson.com/2010/10/13/wh...ppose-and-why/

http://rogereolson.com/2010/11/28/ar...ered-theology/

And finally for Crakjak:

http://rogereolson.com/2010/12/10/ca...-universalism/

Sorry, but this man seems to be more about human centered instead of truly God centered.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

I thought that the whole idea was that God gave us free will to choose?

For me, that's an entirely valid point. It is a point however that does not negate God's sovereign election, foreknowledge and His use of these things to accomplish His will in a believer's life.

I see it as two sides of a single coin. Given the arrangement of our eyes within our human skulls, we cannot see both sides of the coin at once. It's just a physical reality. We can't do it.

Free will and determinism (predestination versus free will & etc) are on the two different sides of a "coin." Both sides coexist and the truths to be found on both sides are equally valid and important. However, they do represent a fundamental paradox. Given our human construction and the way that we perceive time, we simply can't process (or "see") both sides simultaneously to their fullest extant.

Some people have sought to alleviate this problem by mitigating the consequences of one side or the other. Calvin & Co. sought to emphasize the deterministic aspects and they may have been right to do so at the time given the authoritarian "works based" abuses they were confronting. But even they still had to admit that the individual choice of a single human being is a powerful thing to be reckoned with.

I prefer to accept both sides equally. It is paradoxical but I have found more satisfaction in doing so, in my spiritual pursuits and in the philosophical/intellectual realm as well.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Socialite

When God chooses us... when God comes to us... he speaks beyond the pollution of the flesh.

I love how His Word purifies my polluted soul and gives me hope to live on and dreams to follow.

By His Grace we are saved.

Our salvation is His Gift to us.


Still we are not recipients-in-absentee.

Since the Bible makes it clear that humans do have a choice, in the context of this thread, my stand is with the Bible in that we do have a choice to make in light of the Grace of God as He appears to us.


We are saved by His Grace.
His Spirit draws us to Him.
From our heart, in our sincerity, we believe His Gospel (by our choice).
He gives more Grace, allowing us to obey His Gospel (by our choice).
He gives more Grace, allowing us to live His Gospel (by our choices).



Felix was allowed the opportunity to hear the Gospel first hand from the Apostle Paul, and yet he was only, "... almost persuaded...."


Was Felix's status as, "almost persuaded" a result of God's failure to draw Him or Felix's failure to believe?

Was Felix's failure to believe a result of Paul's inability to minister effectively or a result of Felix's choice to reject God for something a bit more convenient?