Christian hostages murdered by Somali Pirates

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

But you claim that idolaters are lost. Solomon was an idolater. If you don't know what happened to Solomon, you have no business making such claims about people today who you feel might be caught in the trap of idolatry.

Read the 10 Commandments; according to these Laws, God was not pleased with idolatry at any time, and that includes the time of Solomon. Paul was doing nothing more than fortifying Old Testament teachings. Whether you were an idolater in the Old or New Testament, it makes no difference.

This is one reason why we must consider Solomon, as we endorse his teachings and writings as Truth for us today, and we use his wisdom to help us understand God. In fact, the book of Proverbs is probably one of the most widely used books of the Bible. If idolaters are lost, then Solomon's teachings should be banished from Scripture.

I'll tell you what ALL of us struggle with in Faith and Religion; our deepest fear is, FAILURE! We don't know how to deal with Failure. When people fall, the issue becomes a HOT POTATO! This happens because our "Group" that we thought was perfect, is now flawed. Take divorce; this hot potato gets thrown around, and people don't know how to react to broken families and the trauma of divorce. Some preachers feel divorce is NEVER acceptable, while others feel completely the opposite.

But it's the FAILURE, it's the SIN, it's the WRONG which people do that leaves us scrambling with, "Who's Saved, and who isn't?" Until we step back and remember, when Jesus looked at the righteous man, then at the sinner, pointing his finger at the sinner and basically saying, "YOU WIN", we will continue to judge people with unproven realms which are motivated by terror. It’s our way of getting the job done. It’s how we convince people who don’t agree with us.

Apostolics can be the worst of the worst when it comes to this, because we have a very strong focus on the outward. The outward becomes the smokescreen to cover fault and failure. For instance, if a man is told he can’t remarry because he’s been married before, he may come to Church and lift his hands, run the aisles, cry at the altar, and dress with sleeves to his wrists. But his secret life will become perverted, while unnatural affection snares him. He has his fault, but he will cover it to protect his image.

Truthseeker, God can save an idolater, a thief, a murderer, a demoniac, a drunkard, a liar, and a whoremonger. He can save a man who was the wisest man in the World, Solomon, even after his heart was drawn away by a false idea. A few pages before his recorded downfall, I see a man who might have been under too much pressure, and too big of a spotlight.

In fact, Solomon became an idol himself, as EVERY King in the land esteemed him as having untouchable wisdom. People from everywhere came seeking advice from Solomon, and his downfall may have been the people themselves.

Also, like Pelathias mentioned, RC's don't intentionally worship idols. I was a Catholic for 18 years, going to Catholic School, was an altar boy, prayed the rosary, went to confession, went through Catechism, and NEVER did I feel I was worshipping anyone but God.

You are also avoiding the fact that we have our own forms of vain worship, and that humans are drawn into a focus which is tangible. Let's face it, it can be hard worshipping a Being you never see or talk too. This is why even in the Apostolic movement we might use a Cross or a painting to give us some form of spiritual visage.

Say what you want, but I have no doubt whatsever idolators are lost.

Gal 5:19-21

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

If this is where the Catholic religion left it, maybe I wouldn't be so sure in my view of them as IDOLATERS.


When praying to these "saints" to pray on one's behalf, there is the automatic response of reverence for these human beings-- a reverence that lends itself to rival the reverence deserved only for our GOD and Savior.

Furthermore, praying to these "saints" does very little to foster the Biblical truth of our abilities to "boldly approach the throne."

Instead of "asking our Father", trusting in Our Father, and believing in the ability and willingness of our Father to answer our call, the practice of praying to others to pray for us lends itself to asking, trusting, and believing in the ability and willingness of whoever we are praying to, that they might do something on our behalf.

"Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

-James 1:17



To call Catholicism a religion of idolatry is not a stretch at all.

While we're at it, there is not much good we should say about the theology of the Mormons and JW's too.

The people may be nice, but their belief system is flawed, faulty, wrong, false.

The belief systems of the Jehovah Witnesses, Catholicism, and Mormonism will not lead anyone to eternal life with Jesus Christ as these belief systems do not encourage a biblical faith in, "the only wise God our Savior, {to whom be} glory, majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

-Jude 1:25

Great post.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Great post.

Thanks.

You know, I'm not even sure if the murdered Americans were Catholic.


It doesn't matter where we think they are. They are there already. It is pointless to discuss it now, on this thread, in this manner.


The Christian response to the murder of those Americans should be a response grounded in prevention. Our actions should further peace and stability in the region so that no one else dies a violent death at the hands of pirates.

The Christian response is an ACTIVE response.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Thanks.

You know, I'm not even sure if the murdered Americans were Catholic.


It doesn't matter where we think they are. They are there already. It is pointless to discuss it now, on this thread, in this manner.


The Christian response to the murder of those Americans should be a response grounded in prevention. Our actions should further peace and stability in the region so that no one else dies a violent death at the hands of pirates.

The Christian response is an ACTIVE response.

Sure...

but it's not a Christian response, it's an American military response. The Christian response is ours, and collectively as a community.

For some, Braveheart is a Christian film, I think...

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Sure...

but it's not a Christian response, it's an American military response. The Christian response is ours, and collectively as a community.

For some, Braveheart is a Christian film, I think...

The Christian response should be multi-pronged, involving much prayer, planning and MK-19's.



"Blessed are the peacemakers..." not the pirates.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The bible does not answer the question of Solomon's salvation. We have no idea if he turned to God before dying

Someone has said:
Solomon wrote the Song of Solomon when he was young and passionately in love.
He wrote the Book of Proverbs when he was mature and had gained wisdom through experience plus receiving wisdom from God.
He wrote the Book of Ecclesiastes when he became a bitter and cynical old man.

However, how does the Book of Ecclesiastes end?
What we call chapter 12, the last portion of the book, begins with an exhortation to remember the Creator while you are young. Then he goes on with a description of the ravages of aging. Then the final words of the book:
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

He winds up saying, start serving God while you are young and before life gets sour. Then concludes with a warning that we will all face God's judgment.

I hope this means that he considered his ways, maybe not until he was an old man, and turned to God and was ready to face God at his death.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Thanks.

You know, I'm not even sure if the murdered Americans were Catholic.

They were not. Again, the captain/owner of the yacht was a graduate of Fuller Seminary in Pasadena, CA, and he had even taught there on a part time basis before retiring to the sea.

The whole thread got off track because Toothseeker couldn't wait to imagine sending somebody to hell.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

It doesn't matter where we think they are. They are there already. It is pointless to discuss it now, on this thread, in this manner.


The Christian response to the murder of those Americans should be a response grounded in prevention. Our actions should further peace and stability in the region so that no one else dies a violent death at the hands of pirates.

The Christian response is an ACTIVE response.

You are correct about the "response." I'm just afraid that given the state of things right now, there will be no response at all.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by pelathais

They were not. Again, the captain/owner of the yacht was a graduate of Fuller Seminary in Pasadena, CA, and he had even taught there on a part time basis before retiring to the sea.

The whole thread got off track because Toothseeker couldn't wait to imagine sending somebody to hell.



You are correct about the "response." I'm just afraid that given the state of things right now, there will be no response at all.

You must've missed Sec. Clinton's remarks on this already?

Civilians were killed in an overseas piracy episode by rebels and rogues... how that is resolved isn't simple. I liked some of the solutions you mentioned early.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

...You know, I'm not even sure if the murdered Americans were Catholic....

I don't know the religious affiliation or non affiliation of the 4 people.
I did see something on the news recently where a Monsignor (I assume he was the pastor of the married couple) talked very briefly about them distributing the Word of God. I thought he was their pastor but I may have been wrong.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Say what you want, but I have no doubt whatsever idolators are lost.

I answered earlier when I posted I don't know. (concerning Solomon)

You make no sense.