Is Bin Laden in a burnin hell?

[Michael The Disciple]

Hi MikeB,

Since you have once again found the time and interest to discuss the Biblical concept of death and resurrection allow me to point out a few things to you:

20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev. 20:4-4

You will notice what happens in the resurrection.

The dead live again.

The dead who did not get resurrected at the first resurrection lived not again.

The reason we are told the dead live again at the first resurrection was because they were not alive until then.

Then we are plainly told apart from the resurrection the dead live not.

The key being "lived not". The dead are not living.

[Michael The Disciple]

If I know Prax he is probably getting upset about now because the thread is off topic? I am game to continue the discussion here (if he thinks its ok) or on another thread.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hi MikeB,

Since you have once again found the time and interest to discuss the Biblical concept of death and resurrection allow me to point out a few things to you:

Aside from the sarcasm, let's continue...

20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev. 20:4-4

You will notice what happens in the resurrection.

The dead live again.

The dead who did not get resurrected at the first resurrection lived not again.

The reason we are told the dead live again at the first resurrection was because they were not alive until then.

Then we are plainly told apart from the resurrection the dead live not.

The key being "lived not". The dead are not living.

That is speaking in terms of BODIES ALONE. All scripture must gel and flow together. The bible speaks of a resurrection of damnation and of the unjust. The same principle applies with what sleeps. THE BODY sleeps from God's perspective. Not the soul, otherwise Paul was wrong in saying absence from body is presence with Lord. If Paul said absence from the body meant presence with the Lord there is no soul sleep.

I already said more than once that death is not non-existence. Death is separation of soul from body (first death) and separation from God (second death). It is not merely the heart stopping its ticking, and it is not non-existence.

So, again, what place does hell fire have in your view? How can hell be merely the grave if it has fire and if hell (with its fire) is thrown into the lake of fire?

[Hoovie]

Again, I like a joke as much as anyone, However, I have a difficult time in jesting about the eternal fate of the departed. I would like to see all escape hades and the eternal separation from God. While I understand OBL as evil, I also believe he is no more worthy of "eternal death" than I myself!

Just as I am without one plea,
But that thy blood was shed for me!
And that thy bidst me come to thee,
Oh Lamb of God I come!

[Michael The Disciple]

Well nothing from Prax so maybe he was aware it would take this direction?

Anyway,

That is speaking in terms of BODIES ALONE. All scripture must gel and flow together. The bible speaks of a resurrection of damnation and of the unjust. The same principle applies with what sleeps. THE BODY sleeps from God's perspective.

What would be the point if its talking about just dead bodies? It says they LIVED at the resurrection. So do bodies have a life apart from souls? The person in your view would already have been alive.

So in context that would be like "and their dead bodies lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years". Which fits the context? That? Or THEY meaning the persons lived and reigned with Christ.

Not the soul, otherwise Paul was wrong in saying absence from body is presence with Lord. If Paul said absence from the body meant presence with the Lord there is no soul sleep.

Paul did not imply what you think he meant by that. Read this for clarification.

http://www.freeforum101.com/inthelig...rum=inthelight

I already said more than once that death is not non-existence.

But can we allow Gods word to give us the definition of death?

146:2 While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.
146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:2-4

According to scripture live is having BEING. According to scripture death is the loss of the sense of BEING. The day he DIES what happens?

HIS THOUGHTS PERISH.

The dead no longer have any consciousness of BEING.

Now you can understand what death means to a person according to scripture.

Will you now say that THE BODY loses its sense of being? As if the body has its own independent sense of awareness and being?

So, again, what place does hell fire have in your view? How can hell be merely the grave if it has fire and if hell (with its fire) is thrown into the lake of fire?

Gehenna Fire is a reality for the resurrected dead. First understand the foundation truth concerning life, death, and Hades/Sheol then you will know what it means when Hades is emptied out into the Gehenna Fire.

What is in Sheol/Hades?

49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.
49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah. Psalms 45:14-15

The word "grave" appears 3 times in these 2 verses. Each time it is the Hebrew "Sheol". It is a place where animals like it says SHEEP go when they die the same as men. It is the common grave of all that die.

It is the place that even the righteous dead still go at death.

Thats why Jesus said the gates of Hades would not prevail against them. Why? Because he will raise them up at the last day.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Dare I say I don't wish Hell (eternal torment) on anyone?

Amen!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

If I know Prax he is probably getting upset about now because the thread is off topic? I am game to continue the discussion here (if he thinks its ok) or on another thread.

I don't have a point to make. It's just a poll to generate discussion

[Michael The Disciple]

I have started another thread called IF A MAN DIE if anyone is interested.

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=35194

I will continue to watch this one also.

[UnTraditional]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Muslims (many) will say he is in heaven enjoying having sex with 21 virgins (how when his body is at the bottem of the ocean I will never know)

Others say he is rotting in hell

Perhaps UCs say God will forgive him and welcome him lovingly into his arms...

What say ye?

I say that lest the man repented of his sins and believed the Gospel, he ended up exactly where all men end up who do not repent and believe, in the hands of a just and righteous God who judges according to His Word.

[Michael The Disciple]

There needs to be much more teaching on eternal judgment. Many think if you speak of judgment and eternal destruction you are cruel and mean. Yet scripture tells us it is one of the foundation teachings of this faith.