"Many ministers say they're tempted to throw in the towel or move because of people. Problem people to be exact. I remember the first church I served. After a few months I was approached by a man who felt called by God to be my accountability partner...without asking me. He offered to take me out to eat one day, so I accepted. Little was I prepared for what was about to happen.
Setting down his sandwich he said, "Brian, there are a number of things you are doing wrong, but for the sake of time I've kept my list to 10." I made the mistake of saying, "Start with number one." Two and a half hours later I left with two things--30% less self-esteem and a really good case for why first cousins should never marry.
Like most ministers, I've regularly felt the sting of difficult people. Looking back on some of these situations I've come to one conclusion: in every congregation there are always 3 or 4 blessed souls that are there because no other organization in town will put up with them.
Yes, I agree that it's hard to overestimate the damage some ministers have done to churches. I own that. I know I've caused my share of pain. But it's also healthy to acknowledge that many of God's servants walk with a limp because no-one in their congregation had the guts to stand up to a known troublemaker and protect their leader. It's at those times it becomes easy to question whether the price is too high, at least for me.
"Many ministers say they're tempted to throw in the towel or move because of people. Problem people to be exact. I remember the first church I served. After a few months I was approached by a man who felt called by God to be my accountability partner...without asking me. He offered to take me out to eat one day, so I accepted. Little was I prepared for what was about to happen.
Setting down his sandwich he said, "Brian, there are a number of things you are doing wrong, but for the sake of time I've kept my list to 10." I made the mistake of saying, "Start with number one." Two and a half hours later I left with two things--30% less self-esteem and a really good case for why first cousins should never marry.
Like most ministers, I've regularly felt the sting of difficult people. Looking back on some of these situations I've come to one conclusion: in every congregation there are always 3 or 4 blessed souls that are there because no other organization in town will put up with them.
Yes, I agree that it's hard to overestimate the damage some ministers have done to churches. I own that. I know I've caused my share of pain. But it's also healthy to acknowledge that many of God's servants walk with a limp because no-one in their congregation had the guts to stand up to a known troublemaker and protect their leader. It's at those times it becomes easy to question whether the price is too high, at least for me.
Abuse is not selective, it does not discriminate!!
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
1. Whether or not abuse to an authority figure is quite the same dynamic as abusive behavior by an authority figure, and
2. The very real problem of "saints" who overrun, abuse, bully and harass those in ministry for various reasons.
On the first point, and barring physical abuse or blatant verbal abuse, I would say that it's difficult to interpret what actually comprises abusive behavior. Some people are simply annoying, but that doesn't mean they're abusive. They may be opinionated and blunt; that doesn't necessarily mean they're abusive either. And I worry a bit about saints who are simply trying to stand up for themselves being called trouble makers or abusers of the ministry for daring to ask a question like, "Is that really in scripture?" or "Can you support this doctrine with the Word?" Actions and statements by those in authority have more impact than those of laypeople. There are times when a layperson could make a smart remark, and it could just roll off, but if a pastor made the same remark, it would carry more weight and might be considered abusive. (Because presumably people would take it more seriously.)
That said, on to point 2: There are people who can't stand authority figures, who don't like to have anyone even suggest to them how they could live their lives in a more productive way, are jealous of people in leadership, have a bone to pick with the church, etc. They love to pick at, gossip about, harass, interrogate, frustrate and generally cause misery for church staff. Those are the facts. Growing up in a pastor's home and being around other pastors and their families, I know this kind of stuff first hand. Some people are simply downright mean. It's a crying shame that any pastor or his family or other members of the church staff have to deal with people like that, but alas, it really goes with the job, and it can't be helped. Not really. Not unless you want to get out of the people business, and basically spreading the Gospel and caring for God's church is all about being in the people business. You either have to be all about people and all of the baggage (and sometimes garbage) that comes with that or not. You can't have it both ways.
My other thought is: Something can be hurtful and not be abusive.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
"Many ministers say they're tempted to throw in the towel or move because of people. Problem people to be exact. I remember the first church I served. After a few months I was approached by a man who felt called by God to be my accountability partner...without asking me. He offered to take me out to eat one day, so I accepted. Little was I prepared for what was about to happen.
Setting down his sandwich he said, "Brian, there are a number of things you are doing wrong, but for the sake of time I've kept my list to 10." I made the mistake of saying, "Start with number one." Two and a half hours later I left with two things--30% less self-esteem and a really good case for why first cousins should never marry.
Like most ministers, I've regularly felt the sting of difficult people. Looking back on some of these situations I've come to one conclusion: in every congregation there are always 3 or 4 blessed souls that are there because no other organization in town will put up with them.
Yes, I agree that it's hard to overestimate the damage some ministers have done to churches. I own that. I know I've caused my share of pain. But it's also healthy to acknowledge that many of God's servants walk with a limp because no-one in their congregation had the guts to stand up to a known troublemaker and protect their leader. It's at those times it becomes easy to question whether the price is too high, at least for me.
1. Whether or not abuse to an authority figure is quite the same dynamic as abusive behavior by an authority figure, and
2. The very real problem of "saints" who overrun, abuse, bully and harass those in ministry for various reasons.
On the first point, and barring physical abuse or blatant verbal abuse, I would say that it's difficult to interpret what actually comprises abusive behavior. Some people are simply annoying, but that doesn't mean they're abusive. They may be opinionated and blunt; that doesn't necessarily mean they're abusive either. And I worry a bit about saints who are simply trying to stand up for themselves being called trouble makers or abusers of the ministry for daring to ask a question like, "Is that really in scripture?" or "Can you support this doctrine with the Word?" Actions and statements by those in authority have more impact than those of laypeople. There are times when a layperson could make a smart remark, and it could just roll off, but if a pastor made the same remark, it would carry more weight and might be considered abusive. (Because presumably people would take it more seriously.)
That said, on to point 2: There are people who can't stand authority figures, who don't like to have anyone even suggest to them how they could live their lives in a more productive way, are jealous of people in leadership, have a bone to pick with the church, etc. They love to pick at, gossip about, harass, interrogate, frustrate and generally cause misery for church staff. Those are the facts. Growing up in a pastor's home and being around other pastors and their families, I know this kind of stuff first hand. Some people are simply downright mean. It's a crying shame that any pastor or his family or other members of the church staff have to deal with people like that, but alas, it really goes with the job, and it can't be helped. Not really. Not unless you want to get out of the people business, and basically spreading the Gospel and caring for God's church is all about being in the people business. You either have to be all about people and all of the baggage (and sometimes garbage) that comes with that or not. You can't have it both ways.
My other thought is: Something can be hurtful and not be abusive.
1. Whether or not abuse to an authority figure is quite the same dynamic as abusive behavior by an authority figure, and
2. The very real problem of "saints" who overrun, abuse, bully and harass those in ministry for various reasons.
On the first point, and barring physical abuse or blatant verbal abuse, I would say that it's difficult to interpret what actually comprises abusive behavior. Some people are simply annoying, but that doesn't mean they're abusive. They may be opinionated and blunt; that doesn't necessarily mean they're abusive either. And I worry a bit about saints who are simply trying to stand up for themselves being called trouble makers or abusers of the ministry for daring to ask a question like, "Is that really in scripture?" or "Can you support this doctrine with the Word?" Actions and statements by those in authority have more impact than those of laypeople. There are times when a layperson could make a smart remark, and it could just roll off, but if a pastor made the same remark, it would carry more weight and might be considered abusive. (Because presumably people would take it more seriously.)
That said, on to point 2: There are people who can't stand authority figures, who don't like to have anyone even suggest to them how they could live their lives in a more productive way, are jealous of people in leadership, have a bone to pick with the church, etc. They love to pick at, gossip about, harass, interrogate, frustrate and generally cause misery for church staff. Those are the facts. Growing up in a pastor's home and being around other pastors and their families, I know this kind of stuff first hand. Some people are simply downright mean. It's a crying shame that any pastor or his family or other members of the church staff have to deal with people like that, but alas, it really goes with the job, and it can't be helped. Not really. Not unless you want to get out of the people business, and basically spreading the Gospel and caring for God's church is all about being in the people business. You either have to be all about people and all of the baggage (and sometimes garbage) that comes with that or not. You can't have it both ways.
My other thought is: Something can be hurtful and not be abusive.
While I understand where you are coming from, I believe what many clergy members go through (and I know from 18 years experience) is NOT just a few people getting on their nerves. Abuse runs deeply, and because they are the man/woman of God many people just say that they can't possibly be going through any real abuse. I beg to differ. Sacrificing your life for the ministry is already a daily death, but to sacrifice your life while serving ungrateful, rebellious, fault finding, disgruntle people can make you homesick for heaven. I've often witnessed seminars during leadership conferences that will make you cry. One seminar was entitled, "When sheep bite." This should NOT be taken so lightly. I am a BIG advocate for clergy!
__________________
"Enjoying Jesus and all His Joys"
There seems to be two extremes in regard to the spiritual abuse experienced in Pentecostal churches.
1. The whack-job dictator leader who isn't happy unless he's disciplining someone via sermons or "counseling." Of course, the discipline almost always centers around a deviation from his personal ordnung. He's all about outward purity, and completely ignores attitudinal issues.
It may surprise you to discover that pastors experience this type of abuse from denominational councils and officials.
2. "Saints" who habitually send nasty emails, letters and phone calls to the pastor in which they attack his kids, his wife, his stance on any issue, his preaching style, his vision (or lack thereof), and anything else that hits them.
MissB, you can say "it just comes with the job" but I think the mass exodus of ministers can be blamed, in part, to this sort of thing. When you combine little or no pay with a hostile work environment the end result is clear.
__________________
I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
"Many ministers say they're tempted to throw in the towel or move because of people. Problem people to be exact. I remember the first church I served. After a few months I was approached by a man who felt called by God to be my accountability partner...without asking me. He offered to take me out to eat one day, so I accepted. Little was I prepared for what was about to happen.
Setting down his sandwich he said, "Brian, there are a number of things you are doing wrong, but for the sake of time I've kept my list to 10." I made the mistake of saying, "Start with number one." Two and a half hours later I left with two things--30% less self-esteem and a really good case for why first cousins should never marry.
Like most ministers, I've regularly felt the sting of difficult people. Looking back on some of these situations I've come to one conclusion: in every congregation there are always 3 or 4 blessed souls that are there because no other organization in town will put up with them.
Yes, I agree that it's hard to overestimate the damage some ministers have done to churches. I own that. I know I've caused my share of pain. But it's also healthy to acknowledge that many of God's servants walk with a limp because no-one in their congregation had the guts to stand up to a known troublemaker and protect their leader. It's at those times it becomes easy to question whether the price is too high, at least for me.
Yeah, but why not let God take care of them? Like one of our former pastors, who told us about a man in his previous church, where someone "gave the pastor a hard time. And he died."
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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