We did not wear uniforms

[Cindy]

Who wears uniforms?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

I think that so many have a seriously distorted notion about holiness. Holiness is not what you do, but instead what you do is a fruit or evidence of holiness. Holiness is a divine work of grace imputed to the believers by faith, and is something we are all called to walk in, not become. We become holy before God when we come into Him. We cannot dress holy or be holy, unless we are in Christ, the one who makes us holy.

That's one thing a lot of folks miss and so they become frustrated with the Christian walk. The fact that "holiness is imputed..." (Romans 4:9-25).

Too many people get talked into try to earn or "deserve" salvation through their own works and deeds. When they run into the inevitable traps and snares of life some end up thinking that they must not be "good enough" and so they simply throw themselves completely into sin. Sadly, far too many of these folks are never rescued from the snare.

What if? ... What if instead, we teach people who first come to faith that they CAN NEVER earn their salvation? They can never "deserve" to be saved? The only reason that they have even come this far is because the Spirit of Almighty God has been calling them to Himself!

Now, with a foundation established upon THE WORKS OF JESUS CHRIST, we can then begin to disciple the new Christian into ways that he or she can show the fruit of their salvation.

Jesus is the Savior, right? The answer is either "yes" or "no." Is He able to save, yes or no? Are you willing to allow Him to save, yes or no?

If "yes," then get out of the way!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Cindy

Who wears uniforms?

I did. I wore one to church every service for a couple of decades.

To be fair, I remember when floral print shirts came back into vogue. These seemed to be the de rigueur uniform for many "charismatic" types in the late 80s/early 90s.

Every group has a certain "look." And, each region of the country (and world) has their own "style" that those who don't quite follow will sort of stick out from the crowd.

Our problem is that we are supposed to be winning people to Christ, not selling them suits and accessories. Also, we have wrongly attached the concept of "salvation" to a certain "look" and style. That's wrong.

To go even further, we have built up a certain level of pride within the OP movement over these things. If you can whip your laggard saints into shape and get them polished up for a conference or camp meeting - then you as the pastor gets a prize. And pastors, don't deny it. There is a tremendous amount of pressure placed upon our pastors to "have a clean church" - that is, to get everybody all dressed up and lined up according to the official standards of dress.

That's "The Uniform." Everybody, uniform. Blend in with the herd or the pastor or evangelist will call you out!

[pelathais]

I remember in the late 70s one popular UPC pastor/camp speaker was returning to his church after being out due to injuries that he had suffered in an accident. The tape of his "first message back in the pulpit" was wildly popular and almost required listening.

That man scolded and hollered at his church for their allegedly errant ways. He even demanded that any woman who had ever cut her hair write him a personal letter of apology. He was that forceful and that demanding with the people he was alleged to have served.

Many years later, after one of his favorites was charged with molesting children within his own family - this pastor publicly called the children "whores" for no other reason than that they had been victims. I know that I am angering some folks by bringing this up - But I see a clear and direct connection here.

This pastor was heralded for how "clean he kept his church." He brow beat people and drove folks off who wouldn't "line up" with the dress code. When sin was found in his camp, however, instead of calling out "Achan;" he called out his own grandchildren and called them "whores."

The arbitrary nature in which these "dress codes" and other "standards" (and even out-right sin) are administered and the harm that is done by our own ignorance is probably the biggest reason God has not blessed the UPC and other Apostolic organizations with revival. If we can't be trusted with the relative hand full of people who wander through our doors, how can He trust us with the billions who are seeking the Kingdom? (Luke 19:12-27).

If we can't correctly disciple people on a concept as basic as "Jesus is the Savior" - then how can we be trusted with the souls of any child of God or even "potential" child of God?

Do your split ends really amount to something worthy of honor in the Kingdom? Honor for whom? We declare it to be an "honor" and "glory" for a woman to NEVER trim her split ends. We say that she cannot even be saved if she does. Torn and worn out strands of keratin protein have become our gods. That, and a "smart suit" and "bifurcated garments" on the "correct" people and no "bifurcated garments" on the "incorrect" people.

We have a "priesthood" that is garbed in stranger array than any Babylonian priest or priestess. And, none of it is Bible.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I remember in the late 70s one popular UPC pastor/camp speaker was returning to his church after being out due to injuries that he had suffered in an accident. The tape of his "first message back in the pulpit" was wildly popular and almost required listening.

That man scolded and hollered at his church for their allegedly errant ways. He even demanded that any woman who had ever cut her hair write him a personal letter of apology. He was that forceful and that demanding with the people he was alleged to have served.

Many years later, after one of his favorites was charged with molesting children within his own family - this pastor publicly called the children "whores" for no other reason than that they had been victims. I know that I am angering some folks by bringing this up - But I see a clear and direct connection here.

This pastor was heralded for how "clean he kept his church." He brow beat people and drove folks off who wouldn't "line up" with the dress code. When sin was found in his camp, however, instead of calling out "Achan;" he called out his own grandchildren and called them "whores."

The arbitrary nature in which these "dress codes" and other "standards" (and even out-right sin) are administered and the harm that is done by our own ignorance is probably the biggest reason God has not blessed the UPC and other Apostolic organizations with revival. If we can't be trusted with the relative hand full of people who wander through our doors, how can He trust us with the billions who are seeking the Kingdom? (Luke 19:12-27).

If we can't correctly disciple people on a concept as basic as "Jesus is the Savior" - then how can we be trusted with the souls of any child of God or even "potential" child of God?

Do your split ends really amount to something worthy of honor in the Kingdom? Honor for whom? We declare it to be an "honor" and "glory" for a woman to NEVER trim her split ends. We say that she cannot even be saved if she does. Torn and worn out strands of keratin protein have become our gods. That, and a "smart suit" and "bifurcated garments" on the "correct" people and no "bifurcated garments" on the "incorrect" people.

We have a "priesthood" that is garbed in stranger array than any Babylonian priest or priestess. And, none of it is Bible.

That is horrifying and sad.

[Dedicated Mind]

pel, have you seen the new acn network? I wonder how big they are?

[UnTraditional]

DM, they are growing fast and under a strong anointing. I am becoming a part through fellowship, and one day hope to join as my pastor has. They are just great brethren with a heart for evangelism, missions, and the Lord Jesus above all else. Their fellowship has been a source of healing for me. I highly recommend The ACN as a fellowship to join with.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

pel, have you seen the new acn network? I wonder how big they are?

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

DM, they are growing fast and under a strong anointing. I am becoming a part through fellowship, and one day hope to join as my pastor has. They are just great brethren with a heart for evangelism, missions, and the Lord Jesus above all else. Their fellowship has been a source of healing for me. I highly recommend The ACN as a fellowship to join with.

http://www.theacn.net/

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by pelathais

You may be thinking of the old picture of a young Olive Haney, "Joy Haney's" mother-in-law.

it could be i just remember it from a topic awhile back

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Cindy

Who wears uniforms?

so today i was at church me and wife was cleaning the doors, and this car pulls up, and the woman with her husband said we are from out of town visiting. and that they were pentacostals.

this woman asked me if we have stricked dress codes.
Its amazing how far standards have been impressed on people, that even before they go to church they want to know about dress codes

So i could tell looking at her jewlry and make up they were not the strick hardline pentacostals.

so i said most women wear skirts and are rather plain, but then i told her, you come with whatever God leads you to wear.

she replied will we be ridiculed or looked down upon, not by me and you shouldnt be by anyone else.

mans holiness standards