God is SO HOLY... one white lie is a criminal offense against His Holy and eternal nature. Any offense against that which is eternal... is deserving of eternal punishment. That's why God giving up His only Son to be crucified is central to the doctrines of atonement, propitiation, and justification. To say that you don't deserve Hell is like saying that Jesus didn't need to die for you, but it's the thought that counts.
Do you guys even hear what you're saying?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son ...that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, except them that perish
Those who believe are drawn, having their eyes opened to the truth of the Gospel are they not?
Quote:
per Aquila's calvinism.
My ultimate point (on the other thread) is this... salvation begins with a sovereign act of God. One can call it Regeneration (Calvinism) or Prevenient Grace, also called "Preceding Grace", (Arminianism). So the fact remains... it is by God's sovereign will that a man is awakened to the truth of the Gospel, the nature of his own sin, and his need for a Saviour. God does not reveal these things to everyone.
Because I highly respect the Arminian position and my brothers who largely lean Arminian, I'll define Prevenient Grace:
Prevenient grace (also referred to as prevenial) is a Christian theological concept rooted in Augustinian theology.[1] It is embraced primarily by Arminian Christians who are influenced by the theology of Jacob Arminius or John Wesley. Wesley typically referred to it in 18th century language as prevenient grace. In modern English, the phrase preceding grace would have a similar meaning.
Prevenient grace is divine grace which precedes human decision. It exists prior to and without reference to anything humans may have done. As humans are corrupted by the effects of sin, prevenient grace allows persons to engage their God-given free will to choose the salvation offered by God in Jesus Christ or to reject that salvific offer. Whereas Augustine held that prevenient grace cannot be resisted, Wesleyan Arminians believe that it enables, but does not ensure, personal acceptance of the gift of salvation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevenient_grace
Arminius stated the following:
Concerning grace and free will, this is what I teach according to the Scriptures and orthodox consent: Free will is unable to begin or to perfect any true and spiritual good, without grace.... This grace [prœvenit] goes before, accompanies, and follows; it excites, assists, operates that we will, and co operates lest we will in vain. - Jacobus Arminius, The Works of James Arminius, D.D., Formerly Professor of Divinity in the University of Leyden (Auburn, NY: Derby and Miller, 1853), 4:472
Salvation begins with a sovereign move of God that sets at liberty the depraved human will to accept the Gospel. Salvation doesn't begin with MAN's choosing to be saved.
Yes. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And therefore ALL are in need of a savior. There is none righteous... no not one.
Do you think this is just, the way God has set things up? That we will be punished for not doing something that is impossible for us? (We or someone else in our place, as long as that someone is perfect and sinless?)
And is it an admirable trait of God, to consider even the tiniest infraction of His law to be a capital crime? Does it make sense to you to say that God is soooooo good, that He demands every one of us be just as good as He is? Or else?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Do you think this is just, the way God has set things up? That we will be punished for not doing something that is impossible for us? (We or someone else in our place, as long as that someone is perfect and sinless?)
And is it an admirable trait of God, to consider even the tiniest infraction of His law to be a capital crime? Does it make sense to you to say that God is soooooo good, that He demands every one of us be just as good as He is? Or else?
The key is that HE DOES THE GOOD THROUGH US, making it the easiest thing in the universe. We just have the knowledge of good and evil ingrained into us so much that we have a hard time to stop trying to exalt ourselves through self effort.
His grace is incredibly awesome as well as His wrath.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Yeah. And I suppose that's a good thing, about God?
His grace is just as overwhelming. And that is the great part!
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
The key is that HE DOES THE GOOD THROUGH US, making it the easiest thing in the universe. We just have the knowledge of good and evil ingrained into us so much that we have a hard time to stop trying to exalt ourselves through self effort.
His grace is incredibly awesome as well as His wrath.
Would you like to answer my questions?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Do you think this is just, the way God has set things up? That we will be punished for not doing something that is impossible for us? (We or someone else in our place, as long as that someone is perfect and sinless?)
It is not something that is impossible for us. I already covered that by saying His grace is divine empowerment where He does these things through us. It could not be any easier.
Quote:
And is it an admirable trait of God, to consider even the tiniest infraction of His law to be a capital crime? Does it make sense to you to say that God is soooooo good, that He demands every one of us be just as good as He is? Or else?
It is not being as good as He is, but Him giving us His righteousness and Him living through us. He cannot stand sin. It is his nature. He utterly abhors it beyond our imagination. Our corrupt nature cannot appreciate that. But His love is also far beyond what we can think. And that is why His grace is what it is to empower us by indwelling us to do His will.
Isaiah saw His glory and holiness, and merely scratched the surface back then and cried out how unclean he was and how unclean his lips were to speak of Him. But God send the serpahim to cleanse his lips and purge them.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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