Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

[Titus2woman]

Correction... It is now 1.700 children waiting for families in Houston. I guess the number jumped another 200 while I wasn't looking.

For anyone who might be willing to be a family to one of these babies we talk about saving, a few years down the road... Here you go.

http://www.depelchin.org/fw/main/Chi...option-26.html

Even single people can adopt, even single men ... so that is NO EXCUSE.

BE THE CHANGE YOU TALK ABOUT.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Maybe I said agreed too quickly... So here goes. First of all let's get some terminology in place. An abortion is loss of pregnancy. It is the medical term for miscarriage. It happens as an act of God and has nothing to do with human intervention.

My answers are for discussion sake only, because you bring out many of the things we hear from pro choice advocates. I will be trying to very carefully frame my words here because the advocacy for or against abortion is such a sensitive issue. Working in the medical field, we tend to see many terrible situations that may frame how we think about the abortion issue. Miscarriages are termed "spontaneous abortions" and yes, this is an act of God.

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Now for some facts. When one says that death rates for women are higher for elective TOP vs childbirth the stats are skewed and here is how.Often ALL causes of death in women who die up to one year after TOP are counted not just complication of the procedure, so STIs, suicide, homicide, accident, etc.

I know a woman who has had nightmares for years after her abortion. She has dreamt about her little girl calling for her...mommy...where are you? It is sad that she had the abortion on her doctor's advice that there was a "possibility" the baby "might" become deformed because she was exposed to x-rays and rubella. I don't think he said that the baby could also have been born whole and healthy either. But that came from an OB/GYN who had pickle jars of aborted babies in formaldehyde in various stages of fetal development back in the 70s. I understand he has since repented and became a Christian.

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I work for nine gynecologists. You would be very surprised at who has terminations and who takes heir daughters for terminations. I will just say this; when people are part of communities where there is a lot of shame about unwed pregnancy there is a lot of extra pressure to find a way to make the 'problem' go away without any evidence.

This is so sad. The real shame is in the "wagging tongues" of people, including Christians. I would have to say that I fear God and His judgment more than I fear the wagging tongues of people. One does not have to be an unwed mother to have a community scorn and wag tongues about you. All one has to do is to disagree with a popular citizen about any particular issue and that can bring the whole community down on top of your head. But when the same thing happens to them or their family, it's all forgive and forget. I try to remember to always place God in the middle of making such decisions as this. What does God think of me if I do this or that? Does quietly taking the life of a viable baby in the womb to save face and everything they have in their position in the community a good thing in the eyes of God? It's more about what God thinks than what a fickle society thinks. Five years from now, in this day and age, it won't matter anymore.

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

One very sad situation that I was made aware of was a family in the church whose 11 year old daughter was pregnant by her paternal uncle. He had stayed with his brother for his first semester in college and had molested his niece several times during his stay. I know his parents, he was raised in a good Christian home and has always seemed a decent kid, why he did something so horrible I do not know. Maybe the girl was even somewhat culpable... Although I do not believe an 11 year old can consent maybe this 19 year old boy did not share my belief.

This very incident happened to a member of my family, but without the pregnancy. She was 10 and the perpetrator was 28. Without going into detail let me just say that perpetrators have very ingenious ways to make a girl that young be a willing participant. This went on for 7 years until her mother died. She lived with him for another 5 years after that. She admitted to me that they were sneaky so her mother would not suspect. Her father was never a father to her so he could never have intervened on her behalf.

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

This family elected TOP to avoid ruining everything in their lives that mattered to them. How the Lord will heal them, only He knows. Time seems to be healing that family but would it be so if they had been publically shamed?

Like I said in an earlier answer. The real shame would be in the wagging tongues of the Christians. They have the power to be of a real Christian brother/sister help in that family's situation. May God have mercy on us ...Christians ... if we make life more difficult for people who find themselves in very difficult situations by our harmful, wagging tongues. Who has the greater sin I think we should ask ourselves? The 11 year old victim who really isn't old enough to consider the consequences of what took place either by trickery or force or supposedly mature Christian people who want to show their spiritual superiority by condemning a child over losing her innocence by a young man who obviously became perverted in some way? Bad things happen to good families and we never know when we will find ourselves in some shameful incident that we had no knowledge or control of. It would be better if people consider themselves or their own families if they were to find themselves in the very same situation.

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Everything is not always cut and dried. Women keep children who lead tortured lives so that they can collect a welfare check and do dope. These kids grow up to be killers who sometimes take many lives. Are their situations where it is better is someone is never born? Would it have been better if Hitler were never born?

These are valid questions but who are we to play God in who lives and who dies simply because some of these kids "might" grow up to be killers and take innocent lives. How are we to know in advance which ones would do this? Who can make that judgment? How could Hitler's mother ever have determined that her little baby could have turned into a heinous monster?

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

And then there is my issue of not trying to conform Sinners to the moral standards of those who have the Spirit of God living in them. Should they really be just like us?

Lots to think about....

I share this issue with you. Morality must come from within. There has to be an innermost measurement of what is right and wrong and what is pleasing to God and not pleasing to God. In the very best of what each of us think we have to offer, we fail God. This is why we must ask God for mercy in our lives and for others who do not know or want to know God. Do I think what propaganda Planned Parenthood puts out is disgusting? Yes. Do I think that the women who actually buy into it is disgusting? Yes. But I guess I must remember that we live the way we are taught and that our job as Christians is to entreat others to come to Christ and let the Holy Spirit lead and guide them to morality. May God have mercy on our souls should we become spiritual stumblingblocks to someone else.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

My answers are for discussion sake only, because you bring out many of the things we hear from pro choice advocates. I will be trying to very carefully frame my words here because the advocacy for or against abortion is such a sensitive issue. Working in the medical field, we tend to see many terrible situations that may frame how we think about the abortion issue. Miscarriages are termed "spontaneous abortions" and yes, this is an act of God.

I know a woman who has had nightmares for years after her abortion. She has dreamt about her little girl calling for her...mommy...where are you? It is sad that she had the abortion on her doctor's advice that there was a "possibility" the baby "might" become deformed because she was exposed to x-rays and rubella. I don't think he said that the baby could also have been born whole and healthy either. But that came from an OB/GYN who had pickle jars of aborted babies in formaldehyde in various stages of fetal development back in the 70s. I understand he has since repented and became a Christian.

This is so sad. The real shame is in the "wagging tongues" of people, including Christians. I would have to say that I fear God and His judgment more than I fear the wagging tongues of people. One does not have to be an unwed mother to have a community scorn and wag tongues about you. All one has to do is to disagree with a popular citizen about any particular issue and that can bring the whole community down on top of your head. But when the same thing happens to them or their family, it's all forgive and forget. I try to remember to always place God in the middle of making such decisions as this. What does God think of me if I do this or that? Does quietly taking the life of a viable baby in the womb to save face and everything they have in their position in the community a good thing in the eyes of God? It's more about what God thinks than what a fickle society thinks. Five years from now, in this day and age, it won't matter anymore.

This very incident happened to a member of my family, but without the pregnancy. She was 10 and the perpetrator was 28. Without going into detail let me just say that perpetrators have very ingenious ways to make a girl that young be a willing participant. This went on for 7 years until her mother died. She lived with him for another 5 years after that. She admitted to me that they were sneaky so her mother would not suspect. Her father was never a father to her so he could never have intervened on her behalf.

Like I said in an earlier answer. The real shame would be in the wagging tongues of the Christians. They have the power to be of a real Christian brother/sister help in that family's situation. May God have mercy on us ...Christians ... if we make life more difficult for people who find themselves in very difficult situations by our harmful, wagging tongues. Who has the greater sin I think we should ask ourselves? The 11 year old victim who really isn't old enough to consider the consequences of what took place either by trickery or force or supposedly mature Christian people who want to show their spiritual superiority by condemning a child over losing her innocence by a young man who obviously became perverted in some way? Bad things happen to good families and we never know when we will find ourselves in some shameful incident that we had no knowledge or control of. It would be better if people consider themselves or their own families if they were to find themselves in the very same situation.

These are valid questions but who are we to play God in who lives and who dies simply because some of these kids "might" grow up to be killers and take innocent lives. How are we to know in advance which ones would do this? Who can make that judgment? How could Hitler's mother ever have determined that her little baby could have turned into a heinous monster?

I share this issue with you. Morality must come from within. There has to be an innermost measurement of what is right and wrong and what is pleasing to God and not pleasing to God. In the very best of what each of us think we have to offer, we fail God. This is why we must ask God for mercy in our lives and for others who do not know or want to know God. Do I think what propaganda Planned Parenthood puts out is disgusting? Yes. Do I think that the women who actually buy into it is disgusting? Yes. But I guess I must remember that we live the way we are taught and that our job as Christians is to entreat others to come to Christ and let the Holy Spirit lead and guide them to morality. May God have mercy on our souls should we become spiritual stumblingblocks to someone else.

Just the idea that I might sound anything like a 'pro-choice' advocate horrifies me. I will be doing some serious praying on this issue.

I do so want to restate and remake and reiterate the point that as Christians we need to be sure that we understand that young people make mistakes and support rather than shame those girls/women who do choose the hard road of keeping and/or raising a child.

One more thing I would really hope that we take away from this conversation is that behind every pregnancy there is a boy/man responsible for it. If we want to stop abortion I think the single thing that we all can do it to raise our sons well. I am appalled at how many boys still believe that there are girls you 'use' and girls you marry and they are not the same girls. Teaching our boys the value of their own purity would make the biggest dent in so many social problems.

I always like to ask men who discuss women in a negative way... "So, you were a virgin when you married then?" Amazingly I've not had one say "Yes, yes I was"... maybe some day.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Anencephaly is not a mistake on sono, etc. It is the complete absence of a brain. It has happened to three women in this practice since I've been here. So you are answering a question I did not ask. My question is about a baby with no chance at life at all.

About a woman whoes life is at risk... we keep saying 'doctors who don't believe in abortion'... but these doctors do believe in delivering a fetus that has no chance of viability. Methods slightly different, outcome the same. The biggest difference is that the mother has to labor or have a C-section to deliver the fetus whole, where a D&E allows a generally safer procedure for the mother.

And lastly, how many of your children are adopted? I have raised two children who were not my own. Don and I plan to adopt and have started the process. There are, right this minute over 1.500 children available for adoption in the Houston area, thousands in the US. Until you take in a few of these broken children and figure out what to do with the rest of them let's not go all fuzzy with the 'adoption option' which is really only an option for healthy white infants.

As I said, I am not a doctor, but I would hire a medical team that would start with a plan to treat both patients. Not saying the decisions would be easy. However, I do believe the unborn are persons and have God-given rights.

My children are not adopted... though we do support pregnancy centers and a Christian adoption group.

Honestly, your fuzzy for adoption comment is offensive.

The bottom line is this. Life is better than death - even for children waiting to be adopted.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Correction... It is now 1.700 children waiting for families in Houston. I guess the number jumped another 200 while I wasn't looking.

For anyone who might be willing to be a family to one of these babies we talk about saving, a few years down the road... Here you go.

http://www.depelchin.org/fw/main/Chi...option-26.html

Even single people can adopt, even single men ... so that is NO EXCUSE.

BE THE CHANGE YOU TALK ABOUT.

I would never advocate a single person to adopt a baby...

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

I would never advocate a single person to adopt a baby...

Never? I agree that in most cases it wouldn't be an ideal situation but there are certainly those who have the means and the ability to do it.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

I would never advocate a single person to adopt a baby...

Why ever not??? I mean besides the obvious, which it that is absolves you of any personal guilt for never having considered sharing your substance with a child who needs a home and family. A single man adopting a child is no different than a man raising a child after losing his wife to death, divorce, etc. It is the reason that it is completely legal. What a way to reach someone for the Lord, raise them in a Christain home!

I spent a large amount of time in foster care as a child. Kids 'age out' of the system more than are adopted. When they age out they are essentially cut loose with no one to call family unless they are somehow able to find the biologics that they were removed from in the first place. Many of these children later fill our prisons. There are success stories but they are few and far between... I am one, my brother on the other hand is facing the death penalty for a henious crime.

People can have ideals all they want but the truth is that unless you actually are part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

And as far as the remark about race that someone found offensive, it is a statistical fact, not a prejudiced remark. White infants have waiting lists to be adopted in every agency that exists. Minority children and older children are left to languish in foster care or institiutions.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

As I said, I am not a doctor, but I would hire a medical team that would start with a plan to treat both patients. Not saying the decisions would be easy. However, I do believe the unborn are persons and have God-given rights..

Agreed on the child being a person with rights. I do not support anything that strips an unborn child of rights. Now let us face the fact that there are many situations when one person's rights are trumped by anothers.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

My children are not adopted... though we do support pregnancy centers and a Christian adoption group. .

That is commendable and more than mosst do but real support is opening your home and lives to a child or children who has no family. Anything short of that is really not meaningfull while there are kids with no families.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Honestly, your fuzzy for adoption comment is offensive. .

In what way and to who? I am a minority person, I am not offended. Adoption is NEVER going to happen for the vast majority of children whose parents have been stripped of parental rights. They will age out of the foster system.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

The bottom line is this. Life is better than death - even for children waiting to be adopted.

Agreed. But it is not better for children who are daily beaten, raped, tortured, unloved, neglected, locked away and eventually killed by the parents who hate them and did not want them. And don't say it doesn't happen... watch your nightly news, look at the reports from CPS in your state and nationwide, it happens all the time.

[Hoovie]

Titus, you are obviously more vested in this adoption discussion than I am. Bless You.

It's sad, but, in spite of me believing adoption is better than abortion, I feel like I just need to say I am not in favor of this --> "children who are daily beaten, raped, tortured, unloved, neglected, locked away and eventually killed by the parents who hate them and did not want them."

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Titus, you are obviously more vested in this adoption discussion than I am. Bless You.

It's sad, but, in spite of me believing adoption is better than abortion, I feel like I just need to say I am not in favor of this --> "children who are daily beaten, raped, tortured, unloved, neglected, locked away and eventually killed by the parents who hate them and did not want them."

And I wish with all my heart and soul that it was not even something that any of us ever had to think on. I respect your opinions and your sincere efforts Hoovie. God sees and He knows all our hearts, I am so very sure that yours is in the right place.

Peace to you.