Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad?

[AreYouReady?]

Two single adults can legally mandate their personal wishes through Attorney's, by filing living wills, Last Wills and Testaments, Advanced Health Care Directives and just about anything they wish to make happen in their lives. This nonsense of they cannot make decisions in Hospital and the care of their mate is just that...nonsense. With the advent of Advanced Health Care Directives, one can put anybody in charge to carry out their wishes and do so legally. You don't have to be "legally married" to do this.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Two single adults can legally mandate their personal wishes through Attorney's, by filing living wills, Last Wills and Testaments, Advanced Health Care Directives and just about anything they wish to make happen in their lives. This nonsense of they cannot make decisions in Hospital and the care of their mate is just that...nonsense. With the advent of Advanced Health Care Directives, one can put anybody in charge to carry out their wishes and do so legally. You don't have to be "legally married" to do this.

Ya, I'm wondering what planet they would be obstructed
on, these days? That argument had little truck
20 years ago, and none now.

This whole issue is just another divider,
is what it is.

[The Matt]

Marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Marriage is a biblical thing. God, along with His written word, disapprove of homosexuality, considering it an abomination, which I understand to be something He hates. This being said, making a mockery of a biblical marriage by making it between two men, or two women, would equally be an abomination. Someone claiming to be a Christian, who supports this abomination, would be defying God, the bible, and making a mockery and a blasphemy of something meant to be a beautiful thing between a man and a woman.

[AreYouReady?]

I think the frog was trying to get people to see that there is a difference between a biblical marriage and a "legal" marriage.

In legal marriages, the government is involved with certain requirements to be done by both parties. There are certain "perks" to being "married" and the couple has what is considered to be a stable home, in most (well...probably half since 1 out of every 2 couples seem to divorce) cases.

If one reads the bible, they will not see any marriage applications/registrations forms from government authorities. We have to get written permission from government to "legally marry".

Before the state required marriage certificates, people were truly free to marry what could be called a marriage covenant. It was written in the family bible the day they married. The church had authority to marry couples without any governmental influence. A couple may still marry this way but it will not be recognized by the state or federal governments to be "legal" because permission was not asked by applying for "marriage license".

In the OT, The only written requirements involved were if a husband were to divorce his wife, he was to give her a paper of divorcement.

And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
(Deuteronomy 24:3)

There's a whole nother story as to why we have birth certificates, death certificates, marriage licenses/certificates, privilege licenses for driving, fishing, hunting etc. Not relevant to this thread.

[AreYouReady?]

I predict that the gays will be granted permission to be "legally married" or at the very least "civil unions" by the federal and state governments for the following reasons.

1. It will be purely a legal union because it will be sanctioned by the state. God is not anywhere in this. Remember, the separation of Church and State rule they foisted upon us?

Who knows, it may even become a new IRS 501 (C) 3 ruling.


2. Christ said in Luke 17:27-30

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

3. The gays argue that the ability to marry whomever they love are "civil rights". They pay taxes like anybody else and if they are in a relationship, they ought to be able to get the marriage tax break like all other "couples".

The Supreme Court rules by their interpretation of the Constitution. I do not see them considering the fact of whether one is gay or not. I do not see them taking gender into consideration at all for this coming disaster.

So we know it is coming. Doesn't mean we have to sanction it in our hearts. Doesn't mean it will be sanctioned in the church either.

But it does mean that church congregations may have to take a closer look once the ruling has been made at how far they will have to go to retain their tax-exempt status if the IRS rules that churches cannot discriminate in what type of couples the pastor can marry. Not saying it will even go that far...but saying it is a possibility.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Gay marriage is not separate from the gay lifestyle. No gay lifestyle no need for gay marriage.

The bolded tells us nothing about whether supporting gay marriage is supporting homosexuality. It does tell us that those who support homosexuality will support gay marriage/civil unions but it does not tell us the other way around.

To look at whether supporting gay marriage is supporting homosexuality then we need to say something like: if there is not gay marriage then homosexuality still exists. But this simple true statement defeats your assumption. Why? Because if homosexuality exists with or without gay marriage then supporting gay marriage does not cause one to support homosexuality.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Two single adults can legally mandate their personal wishes through Attorney's, by filing living wills, Last Wills and Testaments, Advanced Health Care Directives and just about anything they wish to make happen in their lives. This nonsense of they cannot make decisions in Hospital and the care of their mate is just that...nonsense. With the advent of Advanced Health Care Directives, one can put anybody in charge to carry out their wishes and do so legally. You don't have to be "legally married" to do this.

Yes they can but all those things cost alot more money to get put into effect. Paying lawyers is not cheap.

Also, insurance coverage cannot be obtained on employer insurance plans for the other person in the relationship. That's something that there is no possible legal remedy for.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I think the frog was trying to get people to see that there is a difference between a biblical marriage and a "legal" marriage.

In legal marriages, the government is involved with certain requirements to be done by both parties. There are certain "perks" to being "married" and the couple has what is considered to be a stable home, in most (well...probably half since 1 out of every 2 couples seem to divorce) cases.

If one reads the bible, they will not see any marriage applications/registrations forms from government authorities. We have to get written permission from government to "legally marry".

Before the state required marriage certificates, people were truly free to marry what could be called a marriage covenant. It was written in the family bible the day they married. The church had authority to marry couples without any governmental influence. A couple may still marry this way but it will not be recognized by the state or federal governments to be "legal" because permission was not asked by applying for "marriage license".

In the OT, The only written requirements involved were if a husband were to divorce his wife, he was to give her a paper of divorcement.

And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
(Deuteronomy 24:3)

There's a whole nother story as to why we have birth certificates, death certificates, marriage licenses/certificates, privilege licenses for driving, fishing, hunting etc. Not relevant to this thread.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by The Matt

Marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Marriage is a biblical thing. God, along with His written word, disapprove of homosexuality, considering it an abomination, which I understand to be something He hates. This being said, making a mockery of a biblical marriage by making it between two men, or two women, would equally be an abomination. Someone claiming to be a Christian, who supports this abomination, would be defying God, the bible, and making a mockery and a blasphemy of something meant to be a beautiful thing between a man and a woman.

Legal marriage is whatever the government defines it as. Just as legal murder is also whatever the government defines it as. Just as legal taxes are also whatever the government defines them as. Just as...

I think you get the point. The definition of legal marriage is subject to being defined by the authority that makes it legal.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Yes they can but all those things cost alot more money to get put into effect. Paying lawyers is not cheap.

Also, insurance coverage cannot be obtained on employer insurance plans for the other person in the relationship. That's something that there is no possible legal remedy for.

Everybody, not just gays, should have advanced health care directives and living wills. These are either free or nominal fees.

The other person in the relationship should have their own insurance. Don't they work? My husband and I both have our own insurance from the places we worked.

Here is reading about the legal definition of marriage: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/marriage

Gay marriage may become legal but they cannot expect people to endorse it or welcome it with open arms.