A Wrecked Church!

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by ILG

I don't really want sympathy as much as I just want people to listen and not beat me when I tell my story.

You are welcome to PM me and tell me your story. I will read it. I think it will probably roll off like water on a rock, but nothing ventured nothing gained. I appreciate the interaction.

Well then....if telling our experience of how God revived my husband will just "roll off like water on a rock", then I guess there is no point in telling it because it is very near and dear to our hearts.

I just cannot get to the place where I can write about the terrible experience we had in UPC here in this forum. It is nothing as bad as yours, but it was a deep learning experience.

Concerning sympathy...a person cannot tell their heart-wrenching story and not garner some sympathetic responses from the reader. I have sympathy for your family because I recognize that what is happening in our churches today is the work of Satan. People have allowed Satan to come in and divide and conquer the people by using and twisting God's Word to achieve that. My sympathy is for all the lives that have been bruised and wrecked because of the devil's knowledge of human behavior. He knows about humanity's fallen nature and the love of lust, greed and power over others is a driving force. Satan uses it to destroy man's love for one another by putting material things and personal love and preferences over the body of Christ.

I sympathize and grieve that we (mankind in general) have allowed the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life to reduce the outreach effectiveness of the church to the lost. Some preachers and people have unwittingly created hardships for others, especially for preachers who are totally devoted and sincere to the cause of Christ. People are skeptical of what they see and hear now because they simply do not know who is the real deal and who is building their own business/kingdom. They see the greed from the television preachers. They feel the tug of the Holy Spirit when they watch the television preachers because God can use all communications from people for His glory. Then they feel the rug pulled out from under them when the T.V powers that be expose preacher greed. Not only on television, but also in sad cases like what happened here. And this is only a speck in a tank of situations where the devil came in to steal and to destroy. People feel their spiritual rape because many put their all into a system rather than into God.

Christ's blood is always powerful and effective in saving our souls and to give us everlasting life...but man has reduced themselves into entering mere "clubs" because they refuse to apply that blood to their lives and take upon themselves the power that Christ has given to them.

This is where my sympathy lies.

[ILG]

Well then....if telling our experience of how God revived my husband will just "roll off like water on a rock", then I guess there is no point in telling it because it is very near and dear to our hearts.

Yes, I am sorry. I probably sound callous and don't mean to. I would like to hear your story.

I just cannot get to the place where I can write about the terrible experience we had in UPC here in this forum. It is nothing as bad as yours, but it was a deep learning experience.

I fully understand that. How long ago was it?

Concerning sympathy...a person cannot tell their heart-wrenching story and not garner some sympathetic responses from the reader. I have sympathy for your family because I recognize that what is happening in our churches today is the work of Satan. People have allowed Satan to come in and divide and conquer the people by using and twisting God's Word to achieve that. My sympathy is for all the lives that have been bruised and wrecked because of the devil's knowledge of human behavior. He knows about humanity's fallen nature and the love of lust, greed and power over others is a driving force. Satan uses it to destroy man's love for one another by putting material things and personal love and preferences over the body of Christ.

I sympathize and grieve that we (mankind in general) have allowed the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life to reduce the outreach effectiveness of the church to the lost. Some preachers and people have unwittingly created hardships for others, especially for preachers who are totally devoted and sincere to the cause of Christ. People are skeptical of what they see and hear now because they simply do not know who is the real deal and who is building their own business/kingdom. They see the greed from the television preachers. They feel the tug of the Holy Spirit when they watch the television preachers because God can use all communications from people for His glory. Then they feel the rug pulled out from under them when the T.V powers that be expose preacher greed. Not only on television, but also in sad cases like what happened here. And this is only a speck in a tank of situations where the devil came in to steal and to destroy. People feel their spiritual rape because many put their all into a system rather than into God.

Christ's blood is always powerful and effective in saving our souls and to give us everlasting life...but man has reduced themselves into entering mere "clubs" because they refuse to apply that blood to their lives and take upon themselves the power that Christ has given to them.

This is where my sympathy lies.

Yes, I understand. Thanks for caring. It's so hard for me to open up on the forum because I am always watching my back for people to throw in the dagger. I am trying and again I apologize for coming across as callous.

[AreYouReady?]

I understand the feeling of wanting to protect ourselves. I've had my share of daggers, fiery arrows and spears shoot my way.

Now I try to catch them before they can penetrate deep.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by ILG

...I never went back.

and why would you go back?

why would you even want to be a part of a church like that?


It's so sad that because of our carnality and sectarianism we have wounded and destroyed so many people, leaving the path behind us strewn with human wreckage. There are many who are so wounded and alienated that they will never darken the doorway of a church building again.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by StillStanding

This is my last post on this subject.

Oh you have done it now. Posting that it is one's "last post" on a thread is a sure fire way to guarantee there will be new posts you will just have to respond to!!!! You are old enough you should know better. LOL

[Praxeas]

Praxeas is waiting for StillStanding's next post

[ILG]

[QUOTE=Sam;1176478]

and why would you go back?

why would you even want to be a part of a church like that?

Thanks, Sam. I have never really been part of a truly caring church (except maybe the one we started). I don't know what that would feel like.

It's so sad that because of our carnality and sectarianism we have wounded and destroyed so many people, leaving the path behind us strewn with human wreckage. There are many who are so wounded and alienated that they will never darken the doorway of a church building again.

Yeah, I don't know that I ever can be a part of a church again. I miss the community and being part of people with good moral standards, which is why I end up coming around here.

[ILG]

I have shared some horrific things on this thread. Now, I would like to share a beautiful thing (intertwined in some more horrific stuff). But, I do believe that God does show Himself, at times, to people in bad situations. It doesn't really counteract emotionally the bad things that were done. At least not immediately. I don't understand God's timetable or justice balances, I can only tell you what happened.

I saw things like this off and on throughout our ordeal but this was the most personal thing.

I believe in the power of prayer and I believe that prayer changes things both for the good and for the bad. Just as it takes more work to build a house than tear it down and just as it takes more work to clean a mess than make one, I believe that when people pray prayers against you, it comes at you with a force. This is a spiritual war.

Many people were praying against us because they believed us to be evil. We had horrible forces coming against us. One day that I remember in specific brings this out. The lawsuits had both been dropped. We were breathing a sigh of relief when my husband was attacked with a kidney stone. He had lithotripsy (surgery) to break up the stone. We thought that was over. But then, he was facing the pain again (which is horrific) and went back in. They said it had not broken up and he would need surgery again. The same day, my cat got a urinary tract infection and began peeing all over the house. The very same day, we got a letter in the mail from the county saying they were looking into legal action against us because of something we did with the property (that was approved by our attorney). We heard that the people that had sued us and tormented us for a couple of years and couldn't torture us any longer because they dropped the suit went down to the county and were raising a big stink about this issue. They were trying to get the county to sue us. I about fell to my knees when I read that. It was horrifying.

I had to get out of the house and get some relief. I decided to go to a little Amish store and just feel the peace. I pulled up and one of the ladies from the lawsuit walked right in front of my car at the Amish store. I drove to a park and let God have it. I shook my fist at Him. I said "After all we've done for you and this is what we get??!!" I had a lot of choice words for God at that moment. The heavens were not speaking as I railed on and on.

My husband had surgery. Afterwards, the surgeon came out to speak to me saying they had found a small tumor in my husband's bladder. I was completely numb. I had no questions.

After the tumor went to the lab, we got the call...it was cancerous. My husband, through tears in his eyes was telling me that if the first lithotripsy would have worked, they would not have gone into the bladder to remove the stone and they never would have found the cancer. It is a slow growing cancer and they never would have known until it was too late. My husband would be dead right now if they had not found it.

When my husband told me this, I was so numb. I could see he was deeply moved. I could not feel anything. It was 6 or 8 months later that I finally got it.

My husband would be dead right now if it were not for this. I was railing at God and the second surgery was exactly what my husband needed to save his life.

A while later we got a letter from the county. They had made a mistake. They dropped the issue.

I wrote this to say that things like this happened on and off throughout the ordeal. I saw the hand of God in amazing ways.

I still don't understand why we went through all this.

Anyway, my husband did get testicular cancer after we left the UPC. He is doing well now. Hopefully, he will continue to do so.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by ILG

We were breathing a sigh of relief when my husband was attacked with a kidney stone. He had lithotripsy (surgery) to break up the stone. We thought that was over. But then, he was facing the pain again (which is horrific) and went back in. They said it had not broken up and he would need surgery again.


My husband had surgery. Afterwards, the surgeon came out to speak to me saying they had found a small tumor in my husband's bladder. I was completely numb. I had no questions.

After the tumor went to the lab, we got the call...it was cancerous. My husband, through tears in his eyes was telling me that if the first lithotripsy would have worked, they would not have gone into the bladder to remove the stone and they never would have found the cancer. It is a slow growing cancer and they never would have known until it was too late. My husband would be dead right now if they had not found it.

When my husband told me this, I was so numb. I could see he was deeply moved. I could not feel anything. It was 6 or 8 months later that I finally got it.

My husband would be dead right now if it were not for this. I was railing at God and the second surgery was exactly what my husband needed to save his life.



I wrote this to say that things like this happened on and off throughout the ordeal. I saw the hand of God in amazing ways.

I still don't understand why we went through all this.

Anyway, my husband did get testicular cancer after we left the UPC. He is doing well now. Hopefully, he will continue to do so.

I hope sharing about your husband having to have that second surgery inspires someone who is questioning God about why something is happening or not happening. Sometimes we are so close to the situation we can't see that in some short term pain or aggravation there may be some better good that comes from it.

Not anywhere on the level of your story but when I was a young father I had lost my job and had to take a new one making a bout half the money I had been making. There was no way to make ends meet with the debt obligations we had.

One Wednesday night my wife stayed home from church with a sick child and on my way home I had to stop at the grocery store with a list of food and over the counter medicine we needed.

I think I had about $10 and quickly realized that to get everything on the list would be about three or four times what I had. Two things happened. First the grocery store had been bought out by another chain so they had all of the store brand items on clearance 50% 0 75% off so I was able to get a lot of the items I needed because of that.

The second and really miraculous thing was that as I was lingering at the meat counter holding a bulk package of ground beef in my hand and realizing that I didn't have enough money for as much of it as I needed to make some cheap meals I suddenly heard a voice from behind the counter say "you don't need that, you need this!".

A white coated butcher had appeared which surprised me since it was after 9 pm and the butcher department was closed. He then brought over to me a large family pack of lean ground beef marked at $0.99 per pound.

Where it really gets wild is that the next Wednesday night after church I went back to the same store. I felt silly doing it but decided to hang around the meat department looking at the meat to see if lightning would strike twice. Just as I was about to give up the same white coated butcher came around the corner behind the counter and again said "you don't need that, you need this!" and proceeded to go get me another large pkg of ground beef marked $0.99 lb.

I grinned sheephishly at him and said "I was beginning to think you weren't here tonight". It was his answer that really freaked me out and made me think maybe I was dealing with an angel. In phrasing that was kind of formal and awkward for modern english he said something like " You must make yourself known for me to help". It has been several decades now so I am sure I don't have the verbage exactly right but I distinctly remember a chill running down my spine and goosebumps on my arms after he spoke. I never saw him at that store again in the daytime or at night and we shopped there all of the time.

While what happened did not solve my financial problems it let me know that God is faithful. That he knew my situation and while there was not going to be an easy out he was not going to let me starve. He was looking out for me.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by CC1

I hope sharing about your husband having to have that second surgery inspires someone who is questioning God about why something is happening or not happening. Sometimes we are so close to the situation we can't see that in some short term pain or aggravation there may be some better good that comes from it....

Three years ago we tore the wallpaper off the walls in our kitchen, had the walls prepared for painting, and then painted. We had to move a lot of stuff around and my wife developed a strong pain in her groin. She thought she may have pulled something while lifting, carrying, and moving stuff. When the pain persisted she went to her doctor. He thought it was something pulled and had x rays or something run and with pain medication the pain went away. After a few weeks the pain returned with a vengeance. Prayer did not take the pain away so she went to the hospital. There it was discovered that she had ovarian cancer and the cancer had burst. She had a complete hysterectomy plus her gall bladder was removed because it was infected and full of stones. The cancer was the size of a grapefruit or softball and was completely contained within the ovary. If God had answered our prayer to take the pain away as we prayed, that cancer would not have been discovered and removed. A little over 3 years later her blood tests indicate that she is cancer free.