Are others called to Pastor?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Maybe you folks should think about what time we live in.
During New Testament times people did not drive cars, did not have computers, etc.
these days things cost money....

Things cost money then too. There is no biblical record a Pastorate was a job or vocation.

It was an office, a calling. They had to eat then too. They had to have a roof over their head. We had cars, they had donkeys, mules and horses. We had planes and they had boats.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by houston

PAUL said that it was his right, just not a right that he exercised.

At that time Paul was itinerant. I believe in supporting missionaries who are out preaching the gospel in foreign lands, especially places where they could not legally earn their own money. I do not believe in men building a corporation or small kingdom of their own by making a job of the gospel in their own hometown.

If they are entitled to a salary for preaching then what about the one who ushers 3 or 4 hours a week, the musicians, the hostess'? How about those who cook for the sick and bereaved? Maybe we can we deduct from our weekly payment for gas expenses for going to see a church member in the hospital or visiting the nursing home or prison? How about for door knocking or praying? If one is paid for those things how is it that many others give so much time to them and are not paid or even allowed a deduction from the weekly payment (tithe)?

Sadly because they can not justify this many churches ARE now paying those who do the 'worship' and many others. Church is becoming big business and it starts with paid ministry. We need to reel that whole process in and get down to pure religion.

[houston]

So a pastor should be a part time non paid position? He can pray for you on his 15 minute break at work. Forget about seeking God for a message. He can put it together in the office while everyone's in Sunday school, assuming he didn't get called into work.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by houston

So a pastor should be a part time non paid position? He can pray for you on his 15 minute break at work. Forget about seeking God for a message. He can put it together in the office while everyone's in Sunday school, assuming he didn't get called into work.

Hmm, not to inflame here, but I know at least a couple pastors who would be considered full-time, and they accept no pay; and I don't hear them complaining. One is a tele-preacher, and another has a home church. Pretty tough to even donate to them. The differences in their preaching v a paid preacher are profound, like night and day.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Maybe you folks should think about what time we live in.
During New Testament times people did not drive cars, did not have computers, etc.
these days things cost money....


But...hey....I'm banging my head against the wall, maybe I should
just get this over with and agree with you
guys that pastors don't deserve a wage and
should just go out there and work for a living and try
to pastor a church at the same time.
And if the church is BIG, they should have 4 or 5
guys running around trying to make a go of it.

That way we will never have crooked, money hungry pastors anymore.

:-))

It's not the pastor's fault that the organized church system centuries ago decided that there shall be one pastor per congregation. This is where the error is in the system. The bible says obey them that have rule over you. Not obey him that have rules over you.

I am of that opinion that there should be no paid positions in the body of Christ. That we all should labor together so that one person is not inadvertently held in higher esteem than another. That there is no 'tithe' in the NT, but it is called NT cheerful giving and that cheerful giving should go into the "storehouse" for the upkeep of the worship building, for the utilities and other expenses and for benevolent funds to the needy. That the Holy Ghost filled men all have something to bring to the table and that one man alone cannot bring a well-balanced meal to the assembly...unless it was Christ himself feeding us.

None of us are entitled to cars and computers simply because we can give a flowery or fiery speech to a bunch of people. We have these things because we physically labored for them. Let every man build their own tent like the Apostle Paul did.

Let the men elect overseers (board) for the payments of financial obligations such as mortgage, utilities, insurance and for the dispensing of benevolent funds to the needy.

If a man gets into his car to travel to another assembly to preach for them, it is not wrong to collect an offering to give to him for his expenses to get there and return home.

I agree with the rest who believe it is wrong to make preaching a J.O.B. and threaten people with the wrath of God if they do not pay their ten percent out of their labor. OT tithes was not weekly money anyway. It was ten percent of the first fruits every three years...not monthly or weekly.

NT giving sometimes means more ....as God has prospered them.

There may be pastors out there who preach on this, but I've never heard one sermon on this.


12For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.
16 But thanks be to God, which put the same earnest care into the heart of Titus for you.
17 For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his own accord he went unto you.
18 And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise is in the gospel throughout all the churches;
19 And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:
20 Avoiding this, that no man should blame us in this abundance which is administered by us:
21 Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.
22 And we have sent with them our brother, whom we have oftentimes proved diligent in many things, but now much more diligent, upon the great confidence which I have in you.
23 Whether any do enquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be enquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ.
24 Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.

(II Corinthians 8:12-24)

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by houston

So a pastor should be a part time non paid position? He can pray for you on his 15 minute break at work. Forget about seeking God for a message. He can put it together in the office while everyone's in Sunday school, assuming he didn't get called into work.

Yes he can pray for you on his 15 minute break as well as any friend could. Of course if you are the kind of person who has to consult a pastor about what kind of toothpaste to buy he would actually have to tell you to make small decisions on your own... The voice of God is not required to decide boxers or briefs.

If you are a person who needs counseling of the serious psychological variety their are trained professionals who can provide that service and many of them are Christians. The catch... you have to pay

And if you genuinely need an answer from God it's always better to seek it for yourself. That way we don't have a second human intellect muddying the waters.

The preaching part... some people are gifted speakers, some can be trained... anyone can be used of God. We should encourage the last

[BeenThinkin]

I am shocked at the responses and attitudes of some of you. Why it shouldn't be any problem understanding that that guy called a pastor should sit with you and your family into the wee hours of the morning at the hospital as your loved one is dying and then get his tired ____ out of bed in an hour or so, and go on to his job, working at the steel mill, plumbing shop, carpentry or what ever else he does to pay his bills and making a living for his family. And if he should be too tired to come to the hospital, why it would be time then to elect a new pastor.

And by the way, when it's time to bury your loved one be sure you set the funeral after the pastor's working hours. He can't afford to take off time from his job to conduct a funeral service. Why I'm sure you wouldn't expect that.

Now I'm not for a pastor getting rich from the church. But I do believe that a pastor that is called of God is worthy of being taken care of as a church is capable of doing.

And when your son or daughter is in jail I hope that there is time for the pastor, after he gets off from work, to go and see them. Some folks don't deserve a pastor.

I am and have been a pastor for many years and some of this talk that goes on by some of you makes a preacher ask "why?" why should I care about them, they don't care anything about me, or the work of the Gospel. Why should I spend sleepless nights over a congregation that doesn't appreciate the time I spend.

In some things attitude sure plays a major role, (and that includes the pastors, too) and some folks "attitudes stink!" Well thanks for giving me a chance to have my say. And by the way I don't and have never got rich working for the church. And another thing, I have given folks money out of my own pocket and then when they get their "burr under their saddle" they simply walk off without saying a word.

Let me say this in closing. There are some greedy, self-serving, only thinking of themselves pastors..... and there are some stingy, selfish conniving church members who don't deserve a good pastor, who cares.

Been Thinkin (about this for a long time!)

[LooneyLucy]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

I am shocked at the responses and attitudes of some of you. Why it shouldn't be any problem understanding that that guy called a pastor should sit with you and your family into the wee hours of the morning at the hospital as your loved one is dying and then get his tired ____ out of bed in an hour or so, and go on to his job, working at the steel mill, plumbing shop, carpentry or what ever else he does to pay his bills and making a living for his family. And if he should be too tired to come to the hospital, why it would be time then to elect a new pastor.

And by the way, when it's time to bury your loved one be sure you set the funeral after the pastor's working hours. He can't afford to take off time from his job to conduct a funeral service. Why I'm sure you wouldn't expect that.

Now I'm not for a pastor getting rich from the church. But I do believe that a pastor that is called of God is worthy of being taken care of as a church is capable of doing.

And when your son or daughter is in jail I hope that there is time for the pastor, after he gets off from work, to go and see them. Some folks don't deserve a pastor.

I am and have been a pastor for many years and some of this talk that goes on by some of you makes a preacher ask "why?" why should I care about them, they don't care anything about me, or the work of the Gospel. Why should I spend sleepless nights over a congregation that doesn't appreciate the time I spend.

In some things attitude sure plays a major role, (and that includes the pastors, too) and some folks "attitudes stink!" Well thanks for giving me a chance to have my say. And by the way I don't and have never got rich working for the church. And another thing, I have given folks money out of my own pocket and then when they get their "burr under their saddle" they simply walk off without saying a word.

Let me say this in closing. There are some greedy, self-serving, only thinking of themselves pastors..... and there are some stingy, selfish conniving church members who don't deserve a good pastor, who cares.

Been Thinkin (about this for a long time!)

Glad somebody had the guts to speak the truth on the subject. Thank you!

[houston]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

I am shocked at the responses and attitudes of some of you. Why it shouldn't be any problem understanding that that guy called a pastor should sit with you and your family into the wee hours of the morning at the hospital as your loved one is dying and then get his tired ____ out of bed in an hour or so, and go on to his job, working at the steel mill, plumbing shop, carpentry or what ever else he does to pay his bills and making a living for his family. And if he should be too tired to come to the hospital, why it would be time then to elect a new pastor.

And by the way, when it's time to bury your loved one be sure you set the funeral after the pastor's working hours. He can't afford to take off time from his job to conduct a funeral service. Why I'm sure you wouldn't expect that.

Now I'm not for a pastor getting rich from the church. But I do believe that a pastor that is called of God is worthy of being taken care of as a church is capable of doing.

And when your son or daughter is in jail I hope that there is time for the pastor, after he gets off from work, to go and see them. Some folks don't deserve a pastor.

I am and have been a pastor for many years and some of this talk that goes on by some of you makes a preacher ask "why?" why should I care about them, they don't care anything about me, or the work of the Gospel. Why should I spend sleepless nights over a congregation that doesn't appreciate the time I spend.

In some things attitude sure plays a major role, (and that includes the pastors, too) and some folks "attitudes stink!" Well thanks for giving me a chance to have my say. And by the way I don't and have never got rich working for the church. And another thing, I have given folks money out of my own pocket and then when they get their "burr under their saddle" they simply walk off without saying a word.

Let me say this in closing. There are some greedy, self-serving, only thinking of themselves pastors..... and there are some stingy, selfish conniving church members who don't deserve a good pastor, who cares.

Been Thinkin (about this for a long time!)

I completely agree!

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Things cost money then too. There is no biblical record a Pastorate was a job or vocation.

It was an office, a calling. They had to eat then too. They had to have a roof over their head. We had cars, they had donkeys, mules and horses. We had planes and they had boats.

Get real. there's no comparison.

I think a lot of people who are against paying
a hard working pastor a decent wage are just
plain cheap.

Yet, they themselves are members of
radical trade unions demanding more and more.
I have seen it in the past and I see it now.
Money seems to be the "God" of a lot of church
goers.