How do YOU know? Are YOU the authority on who is or is NOT saved?
Did you know the presidents personally? Did YOU talk to them from day to day?
Were you present during their last minutes of their lives?
There is one blanket standard for salvation for everyone. Holiness is required. Period. Next.
In addition, no I don't know what goes on behind closed doors and I pray for our leaders dearly and consistently that God would turn their hearts toward him. However from I see on a PUBLIC PERSONA basis and what they portray to US, no we have not elected a president who embodies christian values. However there have been those who clearly have had at some point a relationship with God or have been moved by God in some way to change this nation for the better. But I don't vote for who is saved and who isn't that's my point, I vote for who best represents my values and how I believe the country should be run and who will make the most pleasing decisions in the sight of God. Guess what... it's not O.
Last edited by trialedbyfire; 11-18-2012 at 08:58 PM.
JD can you prove this? On what basis do you "proclaim" him to be a Christian? Present some valid proof of this! I have seen many more actions from him that would make one think he's a Muslim than I have the opposite.
Been Thinkin
Anyone seriously believes BO is a Christian hasn't paid one bit of attention to hs last four years.
__________________
Happy moments, PRAISE GOD.
Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.
Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.
Painful moments, TRUST GOD.
Every moment, THANK GOD.
President Obama is not a Muslim. He is a Christian. Criticize our President if you must, but present valid criticisms.
Really? Why is he the only president since National Day of Prayer that did not honor that day, but did join with the Muslims for their prayer days?
__________________
Happy moments, PRAISE GOD.
Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.
Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.
Painful moments, TRUST GOD.
Every moment, THANK GOD.
Really? Why is he the only president since National Day of Prayer that did not honor that day, but did join with the Muslims for their prayer days?
You can't criticize the President for attending Wright's church and seriously call him a muslim in the same breath.
Where did you read that the President joined with the Muslims during their prayer days?
What exactly did he do with the Muslims on their prayer days?
Is President Obama married to a Muslim?
BT?
What actions suggest he is a Muslim?
All those years attending Wright's church and the fact that Wright married he and Michelle have no effect in your mind in debunking the lie that Obama is a Muslim? You are like Crakjack-- not an ounce of objectivity in your body when it comes to anything regarding President Obama!
For you, this Democrat is evil personified, without regards to the reality that Romney is evil personified too.
How many Muslims do you know would view gay marriage as a "right" for two consenting adults?
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
13 1-3 Be a good citizen. All governments are under God. Insofar as there is peace and order, it’s God’s order. So live responsibly as a citizen. If you’re irresponsible to the state, then you’re irresponsible with God, and God will hold you responsible. Duly constituted authorities are only a threat if you’re trying to get by with something. Decent citizens should have nothing to fear.
3-5 Do you want to be on good terms with the government? Be a responsible citizen and you’ll get on just fine, the government working to your advantage. But if you’re breaking the rules right and left, watch out. The police aren’t there just to be admired in their uniforms. God also has an interest in keeping order, and he uses them to do it. That’s why you must live responsibly—not just to avoid punishment but also because it’s the right way to live.
6-7 That’s also why you pay taxes—so that an orderly way of life can be maintained. Fulfill your obligations as a citizen. Pay your taxes, pay your bills, respect your leaders.
8-10 Don’t run up debts, except for the huge debt of love you owe each other. When you love others, you complete what the law has been after all along. The law code—don’t sleep with another person’s spouse, don’t take someone’s life, don’t take what isn’t yours, don’t always be wanting what you don’t have, and any other “don’t” you can think of—finally adds up to this: Love other people as well as you do yourself. You can’t go wrong when you love others. When you add up everything in the law code, the sum total is love.
11-14 But make sure that you don’t get so absorbed and exhausted in taking care of all your day-by-day obligations that you lose track of the time and doze off, oblivious to God. The night is about over, dawn is about to break. Be up and awake to what God is doing! God is putting the finishing touches on the salvation work he began when we first believed. We can’t afford to waste a minute, must not squander these precious daylight hours in frivolity and indulgence, in sleeping around and dissipation, in bickering and grabbing everything in sight. Get out of bed and get dressed! Don’t loiter and linger, waiting until the very last minute. Dress yourselves in Christ, and be up and about!
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Rom.8:38,39-For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither heigth nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to seperate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Sin is sin. There has not been ONE truly saved president. And when I say saved Jermyn I'll even throw the COGIC definition of saved out because even the old school COGIC church believed in holiness without which no man shall see the Lord and not one president I can remember in recent history has ever embodied true holiness and deliverance so making their religion an issue isn't even fair. You give me one president who was living holy during his time in office who served in the last ten decades ... you can't. However I'll take a president that rejects gay marriage and abortion then one who is openly for BOTH any day. And then has the nerve to say his "christian faith" is what causes him to believe it's okay for two men to get married. You know better then that...
The "nation" has rejected Jesus Christ in intent and in heart a long time ago. America was never a theocracy and was never created to be a Gentile version of Israel.
You are merely choosing your sins to harp on.
If you believe in a "clothesline holiness", a system rife with manmade rules and traditions, then it would be vain for us to discuss holiness.
Obama wants to allow gay marriage and abortion.
Romney would continue to allow and maybe even encourage (simply by his presence) a religious system that is nothing short of being anti-Christ.
You want a society thaty has a form godliness, a form of morality-- making it all the more difficult to truly evangelize a society that is already "good enough".
You want a society where it is really easy to be a Christian. You want to elect public officials that will force a semblance of Christian morals on every other pagan, heathen, and self righteous "good ol' boy" so that sinners become even more resentful of the True Gospel (which can't be legislated) or convinced that they already good enough to "meet St. Peter at the Pearly Gates!"
Your logic is flawed from the start.
David Bernard could be elected President tomorrow and the vast majority of the world would still be lost and on their way to hell. A Republican President does NOTHING to make America a more Christian place.
Only Jesus can save the individual souls of this nation and they are saved only when the souls are able to see their personal wickedness for what it really is. The election of Romney or Obama will not cause any one soul to repent. Those who are chosen by God from the foundation of the world are chosen by God in spite of the identity of the President of the USA.
Furthermore, I don't even think we are living in a time period where GOD would judge a nation as a whole for the actions of the sinners when that same nation has many righteous people and many cattle still present.
How dark is too dark for Light to not be of effect? Actually, the darker the environment, the greater the effect the Light will have!
God gives human beings free will to live a sinful life if they so desire, but you don't see the wisdom in letting the difference between the world and the Church become greater and greater. Let the world be the world and let the Church be the Church.
Is America going to outlaw homosexuality?
Would doing so make the homosexual righteous?
Will the DOMA overturn the abominable but legally recognized marriages that have occurred or will occur in the future?
Would doing so make the same-sex cohabitors righteous?
Will the DOMA withstand Supreme Court review?
Even if it did, would it effect the "behind closed door" actions of the unconverted?
Get people converted to the GOP, then you'll have a "moral" but lost people.
Get people converted to Jesus Christ, then you'll have women refusing (from the heart) to abort their children and homosexuals choosing to honor God with their bodies.
By the way, a Democrat is capable of becomming converted, rejecting sin personally, and still reject to identify themselves with a GOP candidate or the GOP as a personal political party.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 11-18-2012 at 09:59 PM.
Is America going to outlaw homosexuality?
Would doing so make the homosexual righteous?
Will the DOMA overturn the abominable but legally recognized marriages that have occurred or will occur in the future?
Would doing so make the same-sex cohabitors righteous?
Will the DOMA withstand Supreme Court review?
Even if it did, would it effect the "behind closed door" actions of the unconverted?
By this logic why not make sex with animals legal? Polygamy of course also. And why not legalize murder while we are at it? Legal prostitution could generate a lot of revenue!
After all these things being illegal does not convert anyone.
But seriously you AS A NATION make certain laws to have a standard of decency. That society not merely become a pack of wild animals. That children would have a safe and as much as possible NORMAL upbringing.
Your belief that God will not judge nations is shared by many. Do you also not believe he judges individuals at times in this life?
By this logic why not make sex with animals legal? Polygamy of course also. And why not legalize murder while we are at it? Legal prostitution could generate a lot of revenue!
After all these things being illegal does not convert anyone.
But seriously you AS A NATION make certain laws to have a standard of decency. That society not merely become a pack of wild animals. That children would have a safe and as much as possible NORMAL upbringing.
Your belief that God will not judge nations is shared by many. Do you also not believe he judges individuals at times in this life?
Our human government protects the rights of all of her citizens. Protecting the rights of all of her citizens would preclude things that would be directly harmful to others, i.e. murder, stealing, etc. Humans who have sex with the animals are abusing the animals and in America, even animals have certain rights and protections.
God will not judge you for the evil actions of two other consenting adults.
So to answer your question...
Individuals, yes.
Entire nations, no-- at least, not until after the Rapture.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 11-19-2012 at 09:18 AM.
13 1-3 Be a good citizen. All governments are under God. Insofar as there is peace and order, it’s God’s order. So live responsibly as a citizen. If you’re irresponsible to the state, then you’re irresponsible with God, and God will hold you responsible. Duly constituted authorities are only a threat if you’re trying to get by with something. Decent citizens should have nothing to fear.
3-5 Do you want to be on good terms with the government? Be a responsible citizen and you’ll get on just fine, the government working to your advantage. But if you’re breaking the rules right and left, watch out. The police aren’t there just to be admired in their uniforms. God also has an interest in keeping order, and he uses them to do it. That’s why you must live responsibly—not just to avoid punishment but also because it’s the right way to live.
6-7 That’s also why you pay taxes—so that an orderly way of life can be maintained. Fulfill your obligations as a citizen. Pay your taxes, pay your bills, respect your leaders.
8-10 Don’t run up debts, except for the huge debt of love you owe each other. When you love others, you complete what the law has been after all along. The law code—don’t sleep with another person’s spouse, don’t take someone’s life, don’t take what isn’t yours, don’t always be wanting what you don’t have, and any other “don’t” you can think of—finally adds up to this: Love other people as well as you do yourself. You can’t go wrong when you love others. When you add up everything in the law code, the sum total is love.
11-14 But make sure that you don’t get so absorbed and exhausted in taking care of all your day-by-day obligations that you lose track of the time and doze off, oblivious to God. The night is about over, dawn is about to break. Be up and awake to what God is doing! God is putting the finishing touches on the salvation work he began when we first believed. We can’t afford to waste a minute, must not squander these precious daylight hours in frivolity and indulgence, in sleeping around and dissipation, in bickering and grabbing everything in sight. Get out of bed and get dressed! Don’t loiter and linger, waiting until the very last minute. Dress yourselves in Christ, and be up and about!
Shoot, even I could paraphrase things and make them sound better.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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