A thought on tithing - Page 21

AreYouReady? · #**201** 12-12-2012, 11:42 AM

The one house church I've had the opportunity to observe in my area showed great responsibility.

My neighbor across the road told me that they had no name, no organization, but yet they came together once a month for what they called "unity service" and dinner on the grounds. They had conventions in the Spring and Fall.

They traveled two by two into cities and countryside to preach in homes. The only things they took were their personal belongings. Her sister was a lady minister. She traveled all over the world, staying sometimes only a week in certain areas. She is now 90 years old. She has told us of the rewards and abuses she has endured for the 64 years she preached.

She now lives in a nursing home Green House. She is very happy to be there in her own room. She tells me that this is the first time in her life that she has ever had a room that she can call her own.

Her uncle helped founded the Tupelo Children's Mansion and she lives like old time pentecostals, but the organization she is with do not believe in speaking in tongues.

I have been blessed to have spent time with this family and especially with her sister who passed away 2 years ago just before Thanksgiving. I miss her.

Nitehawk013 · #**202** 12-12-2012, 11:46 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyrrYitmHGE

AreYouReady? · #**203** 12-12-2012, 11:55 AM

I can't wait to watch this video Nitehawk. I have to get somewhere where I can watch it without interruption.

I thought I was upgrading to high speed wireless...but this is just a shade faster than dialup. Anything I download still has a long buffer time.

Aquila · #**204** 12-12-2012, 12:19 PM

Here's a funny story. I attened a church that was big on tithing. Everyone in good standing tithed, everyone else had "robbed God".

Well, I was cited for needing to mow my lawn. The problem was, I didn't own a lawn mower. Not a single saint offered to lend me their lawn mower. And the pastor offered to put me up for prayer. lol

In house churches... we don't tithe. However, anything we own is at each others disposal. It's kinda nice.

seekerman · #**205** 12-12-2012, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues

The so-called "hirelings" you speak of, many served for nothing or next to nothing for a long time before they were able to draw a full time salary. Just because you only see what they do once or twice a week doesn't mean they aren't working daily for the church or the cause. If you have a problem with the Church and the leaders of the Church, take it up with God---it was His idea.

There is more right with the church than wrong with the church.

I've been a pastor, I know what pastors do in the Romanist 'church' system. Generally speaking, the pastor is looking to increase membership at the building he calls 'the house of God', 'temple', 'tabernacle', ect, wishing to build something bigger and nicer than the building-based 'church' down the road and is a player of some sort in the organization in which he's licensed. He produces a one or two scripture sermon each week, visits the sick, interacts with the members of the church, marries them and buries them. In other words, he tries to be everything to everybody, growing a building (make sure you refer to the building as something holy when money is needed to support it) instead of simply operating in the church system which was introduced in the New Testament.

No, the Romanist building-based man made organization system wasn't introduced by God nor is it found in the New Testament church. The 'church' of today looks nothing like the church of the New Testament but instead has a strong resemblance to the very thing which God eliminated 2000 years ago.

Oh foolish Galatians who has bewitched you?

DaveC519 · #**206** 12-12-2012, 12:50 PM

Hello TGBTG,

Thanks for your input.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Bro, Paul was not referring to tithe in 1 Cor 9. He was referring to the levites being allowed to keep the remains of the sin offering and burnt offering for themselves.

I agree that the immediate reference in verse 13 was to the altar offering, but the overall context of the passage speaks to something bigger than that. He was referencing the underlying principle of the Levitical system, which was the tithe.

I think it's important to keep in mind where Paul starts in the passage and where he ends up. The purpose, of course, for the passage is to answer "them that do examine me". Examine him about what? Evidently he had already established with this congregation the need to support the ministry, specifically support of him. And there were those who were questioning this. Why and who? I think if we answer the "who" it will give us an answer to the "why".

Notice that Paul begins to build his case for ministerial support using general principles of sowing/reaping that everyone in the church- both Gentile and Jew- would be familiar with. So, in verse 7, we see him using examples of soldiers, farmers and shepherds. All of these are workman worthy of their hire. But then he moves from these examples to ones specifically from the Law (vs. 8-10). Now, who in the church would have been familiar with these? Gentiles (as a general rule) certainly wouldn't, but converted Jews and God-fearers would have. So, it was the Jewish contingent that would have questioned his motives and standing for asking for support. Why? Because- according to the Law- only the Levitical priesthood would've been entitled to ministerial maintenance.

Paul could not rightly demand the Levitical tithe. He was of the tribe of Benjamin, not Levi. But, based on the underlying principles that he'd already cited, he COULD argue the case based on the law of sowing/reaping- specifically- spiritual sowing and carnal reaping (vs. 11).

Now, knowing he can't rightly demand a Levitical tithe, he nonetheless makes his final appeal directly to that system, because (as he did with the previous examples) he's basing his argument on underlying principles. The underlying principle of vs. 13 was the tithe. And so, IN LIKE MANNER (even so) those who preach the gospel among them were to be supported even as the Levitical priesthood was supported: the tithe. Supported with the Levitical tithe? No, just a tithe.

Quote:

Only the Levites were allowed to partake of the burnt offerings and sin offerings (Leviticus 7). In the same way, ministers of the gospel make their living from the support of the church.

But this has nothing to do with tithe.

I think you've just proved my point that this has EVERYTHING to do with tithe. All of that referenced in vs. 13 was to be brought to the altar specifically for the Levitical priesthood. IN LIKE MANNER, those who preached the gospel among them (the church) were to be supported.

Quote:

In the case of tithe, BOTH the general people and levites partook of the tithe of crops and produce (Deut 14).

Note: Tithe was not allowed to be currency. It MUST be crops and produce (Deut 14)

This would be germane if Paul had been arguing for a Levitical tithe. But he wasn't, because he couldn't. What he COULD do was argue for a NT ministerial support system based upon the underlying principle of the former system.

The Lemon · #**207** 12-12-2012, 01:00 PM

It is hard to imagine or expect that a person who pastors a church, regardless of size, would not take their call and responsibility personally. I don't think I would want to sit under any leader who does not take the call on their life personally and seriously.

I said that to say this....a minister is supposed to give the glory to God, of course, but it is not without personal cost to them and their family. There is work and sweat and sometimes little rest depending on the persons personality and abilities. It goes without saying that a subject that can directly effect not only their ability to provide for their family, but also the function of the church, would be met with a certain amount of alarm.

There is no way of knowing any ministers full intentions other then to see the fruit of their lives and what/how they preach. Even then, there is still some risk of the unknown. We need the five fold ministry, and we need to trust God....yes watch and pray....but be careful to not watch and prey..

I still believe we need patience and we need to give latitude where we can with respect to giving as unto God, but i still do not see how any of us can get around giving of ourselves and resources to the work of God, to loving people and making a difference, and to helping a lost world have hope in Christ.

We can argue all day about 10% being a must, and a curse if you don't, and etc. I understand the arguments on both sides....and both arguments ahve been well represented in this thread. At the end of the day, however, we all need to be sure to examine ourselves and our motives for why we do or don't do something, and be sure our spirit is right, and be sure God is pleased with our lives.