Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2071  
Old 01-12-2013, 02:10 PM
Fiyahstarter's Avatar
Fiyahstarter Fiyahstarter is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,308
Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Can I give the other side without seeming to be excusing any bad business practices? Most Pentecostal churches were built by a handful of folks who sacrificed lead by a pastor who sacrificed much to bring them to where they are. They were honest and kingdom minded. Many had to borrow many against their own names because institutions would not loan churches money. So at times churches would be in the pastor's name not by choice but of a necessity. Pentecostals had seen or denominations hire and fire preachers at whim run by two or three church board members. That would fire a preacher if he stepped on their toes. Thus the set up we have today. Where the preacher was given the right to preach his heart and make most decisions concerning the church. Now these churches are old and the founding pastors are dead or retired and the 2nd-3rd-4th-generation of pastors and saints were given a wonderful heritage and some do not appreciate it nor respect it. Again as sad as this is this is NOT the norm most churches has existed for decades without scandal or impropriety.
Good points!

Also maybe the reason it is mostly family members working in the ministry is because they are the only ones willing to devote the time (even though this may be because they have to--if it's their names on the mortgages, their livelihoods at stake, etc. Regardless, shame on the rest of us saints for being perfectly willing to sit on the pews and let others do all the work.)

Oh, I see how we got where we are... But I just don't feel good about the situation.

I think the answer lies here: The saints need to know the ministers are NOT in it for the money. Pastors need to have open reports about incoming/outgoing money and about the good services they provide to the needy community. The paid ministerial staff should not all be family members (and not all family members should be paid ministerial staff). Outreach should be for God's sake, not for share of tithe's sake. Pastors who have $500,000 homes and all the fineries of life should have such because of other-than-church income. (Surely there should be a limit to a pastor's salary, I don't care how big the church gets. If pastoring is about making a living, it has lost its meaning.)

If these reassurances were provided to the saints, they would also provide protection (through accountability) to the pastor, who would be less likely to fall with these such guardrails in place.

There was a day when I felt it was sufficient to say, "Well, if I can't trust the pastor, then I should find another church." Now, the times dictate more than that. Even though, as you say, it is NOT THE NORM, it has happened enough -- and every time these scandals happen, the saints are floored and simply cannot believe that THEIR pastor would do such a thing and they recoil to lick their wounds . . . But worse than that, GOD's reputation takes a direct hit amongst the non-believers who continue to believe that they "sit on barstools with better folks."

Just my opinions...

p.s. I am not a pastor hater. I love my pastor dearly... but guess what? So did these guys.

p.s.s. Oh yeah, and those men who risked everything years ago to build their little church are HEROES in my book. We may not know who they are, but God does.

GOD BLESS!
Reply With Quote
  #2072  
Old 01-12-2013, 03:57 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,600
Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
The problem is that the tens of thousands of 'churches' are built upon a Romanist system of religion and most folks never read their bible enough to realize this. If the church was organized as the early church was, you'd not have as many problems.
__________________
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
Reply With Quote
  #2073  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:33 PM
StillStanding's Avatar
StillStanding StillStanding is offline
Beautiful are the feet......


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right...behind...you!
Posts: 6,600
I know this has been discuss it his forum, but the idea of tithes was so the priests could live equally with the other tribes. My opinion is that pastors should live at the same income level as the members. If you pastor a wealthy church, you can take a bigger salary. Something is out of balance when an average to low income church has a pastor driving a BMW and living in a castle. The pastor is not a king. The pastor is a servant leader.
__________________
Words: For when an emoticon just isn't enough.
Reply With Quote
  #2074  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:37 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillStanding View Post
I know this has been discuss it his forum, but the idea of tithes was so the priests could live equally with the other tribes. My opinion is that pastors should live at the same income level as the members. If you pastor a wealthy church, you can take a bigger salary. Something is out of balance when an average to low income church has a pastor driving a BMW and living in a castle. The pastor is not a king. The pastor is a servant leader.
A wealthy church can be made up of a majority of medium to low level income families too.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #2075  
Old 01-12-2013, 05:19 PM
tv1a's Avatar
tv1a tv1a is offline
God's Son


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,743
Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Accountability can be discussed without dragging TPC into the conversation. TPC situation isn't none of your business. It's between the TPC congegregation, their leadership, and the offender. I don't think your naïve to believe a little discussion on social media will change a person's to be more accountable. You and I have enough trash in our backyards without going through someone else's garbage.

As it was mentioned, no one knows the truth. The only thing we have on this forum is people's perception of reality. The Bible is full of examples if you want to talk about accountability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter View Post
ADD to the above goals.... To help keep this from happening in other unsuspecting churches EVER AGAIN through establishing

A C C O U N T A B I L I T Y

Cross-checks and accountability are PART OF THE SOLUTION. But first we have to admit we have a problem!

We learn from our mistakes. I don't know TB from TPC from Adam. But what I do know is that the scenario under which this church functioned exists everywhere... and as we've already pointed out over and over, it is senseless temptation. It is a scandal begging to happen.
__________________
A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson

Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado

Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard

Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
Reply With Quote
  #2076  
Old 01-12-2013, 05:21 PM
tv1a's Avatar
tv1a tv1a is offline
God's Son


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,743
Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Would you agree its harder to get rid of a bad board member than a bad pastor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Can I give the other side without seeming to be excusing any bad business practices? Most Pentecostal churches were built by a handful of folks who sacrificed lead by a pastor who sacrificed much to bring them to where they are. They were honest and kingdom minded. Many had to borrow many against their own names because institutions would not loan churches money. So at times churches would be in the pastor's name not by choice but of a necessity. Pentecostals had seen or denominations hire and fire preachers at whim run by two or three church board members. That would fire a preacher if he stepped on their toes. Thus the set up we have today. Where the preacher was given the right to preach his heart and make most decisions concerning the church. Now these churches are old and the founding pastors are dead or retired and the 2nd-3rd-4th-generation of pastors and saints were given a wonderful heritage and some do not appreciate it nor respect it. Again as sad as this is this is NOT the norm most churches has existed for decades without scandal or impropriety.
__________________
A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson

Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado

Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard

Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
Reply With Quote
  #2077  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:06 PM
Fiyahstarter's Avatar
Fiyahstarter Fiyahstarter is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,308
Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
Accountability can be discussed without dragging TPC into the conversation. TPC situation isn't none of your business. It's between the TPC congegregation, their leadership, and the offender. I don't think your naïve to believe a little discussion on social media will change a person's to be more accountable. You and I have enough trash in our backyards without going through someone else's garbage.

As it was mentioned, no one knows the truth. The only thing we have on this forum is people's perception of reality. The Bible is full of examples if you want to talk about accountability.
Once again, you are in error. The offender brought this to the forefront/public eye by his indiscretions . . . Not me.

What is naieve is to hope it will be swept under the rug.

ACCOUNTABILITY

Stick with it, you'll catch on.
Reply With Quote
  #2078  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:19 PM
Farfel Farfel is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 489
Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

tv1a, if you don't like that the events of TPC are being discussed, then why have you been reading this thread?
Reply With Quote
  #2079  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:39 PM
Hoovie's Avatar
Hoovie Hoovie is offline
Supercalifragilisticexpiali...


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Can I give the other side without seeming to be excusing any bad business practices? Most Pentecostal churches were built by a handful of folks who sacrificed lead by a pastor who sacrificed much to bring them to where they are. They were honest and kingdom minded. Many had to borrow many against their own names because institutions would not loan churches money. So at times churches would be in the pastor's name not by choice but of a necessity. Pentecostals had seen or denominations hire and fire preachers at whim run by two or three church board members. That would fire a preacher if he stepped on their toes. Thus the set up we have today. Where the preacher was given the right to preach his heart and make most decisions concerning the church. Now these churches are old and the founding pastors are dead or retired and the 2nd-3rd-4th-generation of pastors and saints were given a wonderful heritage and some do not appreciate it nor respect it. Again as sad as this is this is NOT the norm most churches has existed for decades without scandal or impropriety.
Steve, you have stated this as well as I have ever heard.

I agree. The systems are in place and were developed "not by choice but of a necessity". Understanding this is key to effecting any change or maturity.

Thank You!
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Reply With Quote
  #2080  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:07 PM
not4saken's Avatar
not4saken not4saken is offline
"I FEEL JESUS IN THIS PLACE!"


 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 267
Talking Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
Heh. I like you.


LOL "Meew-choo-wal, I'm sure!" (as stated by the buxom blond bombshell in WHITE CHRISTMAS).....LOL

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For those in Memphis and surrounding area... Barb Fellowship Hall 12 01-04-2013 10:37 PM
UPCI pastor resigns amid teen sex charges DAII The D.A.'s Office 248 09-24-2010 05:27 AM
Pastor Resigns? bishoph The Tab 29 03-20-2008 05:39 PM
MOW meets prominent UPC pastor on cruise...in speedos! ManOfWord Fellowship Hall 65 03-21-2007 12:02 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.