------The Parousia of Jesus Christ----------

[Rev]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Let me answer you although you have not shown the same courtesy to me:



The above passage is interpreted by yourself as having been fulfilled in AD70. When we speak that this cannot be the case, since there was not a physical change of bodies for those in graves and those living in AD70, you respond about "the Kingdom."

In verse 50 we read that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. You respond quoting the following verse, to show that this cannot be speaking about a physical body.



But this poses a problem for you. If this was not fulfilled until AD70, then what about the saints of God before AD70? Were they not in the kingdom of God? If your so-called "resurrection" of AD70 fulfilled the opportunity for them to enter the Kingdom of God, and you use Romans 14:17 to show what that kingdom is, then nobody experience Romans 14:17 before AD70. And that is folly.

The truth of the matter is that the soul and spirit of a believe inherits the Kingdom of God upon salvation. This is how we experience Romans 14:17. Everyone in the church before AD70 entered the Kingdom.



We enter the Kingdom by new birth. Everyone born again before AD70 entered the Kingdom. But the reason 1 Cor 15:50 speaks of flesh and blood not inheriting the kingdom is because OUR BODY is the one aspect of our existence that is not part of the kingdom! Paul assured us that this shall change!

Because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, Paul said we shall all be changed in BODY. The CHANGE will allow our BODIES to "catch up" with our souls and spirits and inherit the Kingdom of God. This will occur by the corruptible body putting on incorruption. Since corruption cannot inherit incorruption, the corruptible body is changed and corruption PUTS ON incorruption. "Putting on" is as different from "inheriting" as much as an unchanged body cannot enter what a changed body can enter.

The context of the passage speaking of the body in this chapter says this, which tells us that there is a physical aspect to the Kingdom of God, though never in this world.



There is a celestial state involved here. Terrestrial bodies cannot dwell in a celestial state. Hence, a CHANGE is required.

As it stands, we are in the kingdom of God. Soul and spirit have experienced entrance therein, otherwise John 3:5 is error. But the BODY must change as the soul and spirit changed.

Here is the topic:

At the Parousia, or at the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ, will he come on a......

(Rev 19:11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Or

(Rev 14:14) And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.


Or

(Rev 20:11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.[/QUOTE]

[Pressing-On]

Rev,
Are you being nice to Brother Blume?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Rev

Here is the topic:

At the Parousia, or at the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ, will he come on a......

(Rev 19:11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Or

(Rev 14:14) And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.


Or

(Rev 20:11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

You wanted me to answer on the kingdom, so I did. What gives?

[comeasyouare]

Originally Posted by Rev

At the Parousia, or at the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ, will he come on a......

(Rev 19:11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Or

(Rev 14:14) And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.


Or

(Rev 20:11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

I don't believe any of these texts in Revelation are literal characteristics of the second coming but are symbolical. The book of Revelation is a book of symbolism.

The Greek word, parousia, is one of at least 6 Greek words that describe the second coming. The various words are used INTERCHANGEABLY -- proof that the second coming cannot be separated into 2 distinct, separate "events" -- a secret, pre-tribulational "rapture" and 7 years later another coming at the end of the world.

There is nothing in the term, parousia, that conveys the idea of secrecy. Paul spoke of the "coming [parousia] of Titus" (2 Cor. 7:6); the "coming [parousia] of Stephanas" (2 Cor. 16:17); and of his own "coming [parousia] to Phillipi." (Philippians 1:26).

In 2 Thess. 2:8 Paul places the parousia AFTER the Antichrist -- not before. "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming [parousia]."

Peter spoke of the Lord's "coming [parousia]" at the end of the age, when "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat." He exhorted the church to "look for...the coming [parousia] of the day of God..." The time when the elements melt with fervent heat!

Epiphaneia speaks of manifestation and glory that will accompany our Lord. 2 Peter 3:10 the man of sin will be destroyed by the "brightness [epiphaneia] of His coming [parousia]." In 1 Tim. 6:14, 15 the church is told to "...keep the commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing [epiphaneia] of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate.." Why would the Apostle exhort the church to keep the commandment until the epiphaneia -- the glorious appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ -- if, in fact, the "rapture" were 7 years before this?

Peter told the church to "hope to the END for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the REVELATION [apokalupsis] of Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 1:13). Those who teach that Christ comes first in the "rapture" then 7 years later in the REVELATION face serious difficulties here. It would not be necessary for the church to hope to the END for the grace to be brought to them at the REVELATION of Christ, if, in reality, this grace was to be given at a separate "rapture" 7 years before! In 1 Peter 1:7 Peter spoke of Christians being "found unto praise and honor and glory at the APPEARING [apokalupsis -- revelation] of our Lord Jesus Christ." Again, why would the church be waiting for the "revelation" if the "rapture" comes 7 years sooner? THE RAPTURE CANNOT BE ONE EVENT AND THE REVELATION A LATER EVENT.

Jesus said in Matt. 24:27, "But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the COMING [parousia] of the son of man be." LUke's account of the same passage says, "As it was in the days of Noah...even thus shall it be in the day when the son of man is REVEALED [apokalupsis]. (Luke 17:26,30). "Therefore be ye also ready; for in such an hour as you think not the son of man COMETH [erchomai]." (Matt. 24:44). Here, then, parousia, apokalupsis and erchomai are all used of the same event.

Erchomai, in turn, is used to describe the same event as heko: "for yet a little while, and he that shall COME [erchomai] will COME [heko], and will not tarry." (Hebrews 10:37). Heko and parousia are used together: "Where is the promise of his COMING [parousia]? ...The day of the Lord will COME [heko] as a thief in the night." (2 Peter 3:10). Parousia is the phaneroo, for both expressions are used together: "And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall APPEAR [phaneroo], we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his COMING [parousia]." (1 John 2:28).

[houston]

Um. The thread is 5 years old.

[comeasyouare]

Originally Posted by houston

Um. The thread is 5 years old.

I haven't been on here (AFF) very long. Excuse me.