Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I would ask the question, who is demanding proof that one has received the Holy Ghost? Who needs this proof?

But, to answer your question concerning receiving the Spirit. Tongues sometime accompanied, sometimes didn't accompany the infilling of the Holy Ghost. John himself was filled with the Spirit in his mother's womb. Even John's father was filled with the Holy Ghost, but no tongues.

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Tongues sometimes, and sometimes does not, accompany the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

I need clarification before I can give a specific answer.

Seekerman, in trying to make your point I am afraid you have made an unfortunate choice of Scripture.

In this passage, the Apostle Peter is defending his visit to the house of the gentile Cornelius by demonstrating how "God gave them the like gift as he did unto us.."

We must always allow Scripture to interpret Scripture." In this case we would go back to Chapter 10 to read the actual evets Peter is speaking of in Chapter 11. There we find:

Acts 10:44-48
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Can I call your attention to verse 46? This verse clearly demonstrates that the way in which the Jews knew beyond doubt that God had filled the gentiles with the Holy Ghost was precisely BECAUSE they heard them "speak with other tongues." Tongues alone were "the initial evidence" as it were, of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. This was the "like Gift" referred to in Acts 11:17!

I know you disagree, but in the accounts in the Book of Acts, after and including the Day of Pentecost, every record of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit either directly or indirectly references tongues.

[bbyrd009]

Amen. They had it, and you don't. Your pale attempts at 'speaking in tongues' via glossololia, and comparing it to the beautiful, miraculous baptisms that were necessary in Apostolic times in order to legitimize Christianity is not even a joke; it is a misdirected lie.

While I don't doubt your sincerity, see that what you are helping to do is obscure any genuine experiences of current day baptism in the Holy Spirit, which may still occur--although I have never seen any in an Apostolic church, in witnessing...I don't know, well over 100 instances of glossololia.

While I have no doubt that this will not sway you from your satanically directed purpose, let this serve as notice that you can fool some of the people some of the time...and don't be mystified at why people are running, full tilt, away from your death-centered churches.

[bbyrd009]

"While I don't doubt your sincerity, see that what you are helping to do is obscure any genuine experiences of current day baptism in the Holy Spirit, which may still occur--although I have never seen any in an Apostolic church, in witnessing...I don't know, well over 100 instances of glossololia."

Remember when you were younger, and someone sold you some 'bunk,' and you went around for about the first hour, going, "I don't know; I might be high?" Same thing. When you are baptised in the Holy Spirit, you are going to know, and everyone around you who is witness to it will know.

[Jay]

Further, we know that they had the same evidence in Corinth, because Paul makes very specific reference to praying in tongues and speaking with the 'gift of tongues'. Further, as it was anticipated that these letters would be read throughout the churches, it was anticipated that these things would also be commonly known and understood. How would that have been the case if the people reading the letter had never had the experience of speaking in other tongues, as they did in Acts?

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Amen. They had it, and you don't. Your pale attempts at 'speaking in tongues' via glossololia, and comparing it to the beautiful, miraculous baptisms that were necessary in Apostolic times in order to legitimize Christianity is not even a joke; it is a misdirected lie.

While I don't doubt your sincerity, see that what you are helping to do is obscure any genuine experiences of current day baptism in the Holy Spirit, which may still occur--although I have never seen any in an Apostolic church, in witnessing...I don't know, well over 100 instances of glossololia.

While I have no doubt that this will not sway you from your satanically directed purpose, let this serve as notice that you can fool some of the people some of the time...and don't be mystified at why people are running, full tilt, away from your death-centered churches.

A couple of things: First, you don't even know me, you simply don't agree with what I say most of the time. But you have nothing with which to base your assertion that "I don't have it." That would by implication also refer to the other Apostolics on here that gladly claim the same experience.

You claim I have a "satanically directed purpose" when all I did was present the actual words of Scripture concerning the events recorded in Acts 10 as well as Peter's defense in Acts 11 both of which prove the truth that tongues were the single identifiable sign by which the Jews knew with certainty that the gentiles had received the "like gift" of the Holy Spirit. That is the simple truth of Scripture and a fact of history. To call that deceptive and satanically motivated says far more about you than you realize. I simply presented the truth of Scripture. To attribute that to a work of satan is to paint all of us here that present the truth with a rather broad brush. That is totally unjustified.

As for people "running, full tilt, away from our death-centered churches"? Our Church has had a sustained growth for over five years now and we are about to enlarge our Sanctuary for the second time. We preach the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ as recorded in Scripture. People are saved and filled with the Spirit, lives are changed, marriages restored and addictions destroyed. Our baptistry is in use all week long sometimes at 2AM as our ministry teams present the life giving message of the Mighty God in Christ and His saving grace on the streets of our City. Our home groups are doubling at an average rate of every six months. I fail to see how this is somehow "death-centered."

But you are correct, you do not sway me from my purpose!

You speak to what you do not understand. You know nothing about us.

[bbyrd009]

Well, you are right in saying that I am now quick to disagree with you; the overload of "this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt"s, and all the hate speech @ "Islam" has prolly sensitized me, sorry for that.

And believe me, I would love nothing better than to give a hearty amen to any baptisms in the Holy Spirit that occur; but feel compelled--in , sorry, my own obtrusive way--to cry foul when someone tells me that an experience of current day glossololia--'forced,' no less--must suffice, sans the accompanying 'signs and wonders,' for my 'baptism in the Holy Spirit.'

As for...the rest, nevermind what I know--or what I can learn via the 'net for about $30 --and sorry for any personalizations I may have inadvertantly made. I'm going to have to stand by the advertant ones, though, but I am happy to defend any of them, Scripturally, should it become appropriate. Peace.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Light

One can be called anything. It makes no difference what one is called.

It does make a difference what one believes and is obedient to.

To be saved one must follow what the Apostle Peter said, as he stood with the eleven other apostles.

Technically he stood with the other TEN Apostles. Judas was gone and Paul, the twelfth Apostle had yet to he converted.

Just a clarification, since we seek to be Biblically accurate down to the very dotting of i's and crossing of ts.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Technically he stood with the other TEN Apostles. Judas was gone and Paul, the twelfth Apostle had yet to he converted.

Just a clarification, since we seek to be Biblically accurate down to the very dotting of i's and crossing of ts.

Paul replaced Judas Iscariot? I always thought it was Matthias...????

Of course I was raised Catholic and got my information from them, lol!

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Paul replaced Judas Iscariot? I always thought it was Matthias...????

Acts 1:26
And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

[Titus2woman]

Found it!

Acts 1:15-26

And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples and said, (the number of names together was about a hundred and twenty,) Men, brothers, this Scripture must have been fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit by the mouth of David spoke before concerning Judas, who became guide to those who seized Jesus. For he was numbered with us and had obtained part of this ministry. Indeed, then, this one purchased a field with the reward of unrighteousness. And falling headlong, he burst apart in the middle, and all his bowels gushed out. And it was known to all the dwellers at Jerusalem, so much so that that field is called in their own dialect, Akeldama, that is to say, Field of Blood. For it is written in the Book of Psalms, "Let his estate become forsaken, and he not be living in it." And, "Let another take his overseership." Therefore, it is right that one of these men who have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, beginning from the baptism of John to that same day that He was taken up from us, to become a witness with us of His resurrection. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed and said, You, Lord, knower of all hearts, show which one You chose from these two, to take the share of this ministry and apostleship from which Judas fell, to go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots. And the lot fell upon Matthias. And he was numbered with the Eleven apostles.