Well, since much of this seems to be spawned by me, I'll answer.
First.. I was not abused. I was tired of nonsense. Tired of "Christians who weren't" Tired of Hypocrites, tired of going to church to hear the never ending money beg and things from the pulpit instructing members to go take out a loan and give the money to the church.
Tired of three services a week that went three hours long each and being blasted if I missed.
And yes tired of people on these forums with the disposition of alligators. Cross their preconceived notion and they bite your head off.
None of those things let to the state of not believing.
I was also tired of the lies, giving some god the credit when the problem was fixed by science and medicine. and etc etc.
While I was in church, I was miserable. I hated every second of it. My blood pressure was through the roof, I was moody, grouchy, and hated getting out of bed in the morning.
In the months since I bailed, I feel good, my bp is normal and I was able to reduce the meds, I wake up happy and in a good mood and it stays with me all day. Leaving the pentecostal religion was the best move I ever made.
None of the above was the result for dis-believing. That comes from sitting and being sold a bill of goods about this prayer answering god who never answered one of mine... not for 22 years.
Oh the religionists say, "he always answers, he is just saying no." Well, when you don't even hear "No," and instead get nothing but silence, anfter long enough you get convinced there ain't nothing out there listening.
So, the combination tired of overbearing church, fake people led me to leave that.
The lack of any response from out there helped with the rest.
So, sorry, but nothing will make me step that way again except absolute irrefutable PROOF. And NOTHING AT ALL will lead me to put myself under the thumb of a church or pastor again.
Caio
I ain't mad at ya! I love John Wayne in a "True Grit" kind of way!
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
Well, since much of this seems to be spawned by me, I'll answer.
First.. I was not abused. I was tired of nonsense. Tired of "Christians who weren't" Tired of Hypocrites, tired of going to church to hear the never ending money beg and things from the pulpit instructing members to go take out a loan and give the money to the church.
Tired of three services a week that went three hours long each and being blasted if I missed.
And yes tired of people on these forums with the disposition of alligators. Cross their preconceived notion and they bite your head off.
None of those things let to the state of not believing.
I was also tired of the lies, giving some god the credit when the problem was fixed by science and medicine. and etc etc.
While I was in church, I was miserable. I hated every second of it. My blood pressure was through the roof, I was moody, grouchy, and hated getting out of bed in the morning.
In the months since I bailed, I feel good, my bp is normal and I was able to reduce the meds, I wake up happy and in a good mood and it stays with me all day. Leaving the pentecostal religion was the best move I ever made.
None of the above was the result for dis-believing. That comes from sitting and being sold a bill of goods about this prayer answering god who never answered one of mine... not for 22 years.
Oh the religionists say, "he always answers, he is just saying no." Well, when you don't even hear "No," and instead get nothing but silence, anfter long enough you get convinced there ain't nothing out there listening.
So, the combination tired of overbearing church, fake people led me to leave that.
The lack of any response from out there helped with the rest.
So, sorry, but nothing will make me step that way again except absolute irrefutable PROOF. And NOTHING AT ALL will lead me to put myself under the thumb of a church or pastor again.
Caio
A lot of this resonates with me. With a few edits, it could be my story. (E.g., I didn't hate every second of church. Actually enjoyed some of it. And I couldn't say whether God answered any of my prayers. More like, sometimes what I asked for happened and sometimes not. And none of the granted requests could definitely be said to be divine intervention -- after all, people do get over sickness, e.g.)
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I really empathize with John. There were times during my transition from legalism to grace that I almost despaired. I came to a place where I could no longer worship the god of my youth so I let him go. That moment was the first time in my life I truly felt saved.
Conversations like this prove that there is no such thing as easy-believism. The measurables (repentance, baptism, tongues) are easy. Faith in Christ is the most difficult response to the Gospel.
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I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
I really empathize with John. There were times during my transition from legalism to grace that I almost despaired. I came to a place where I could no longer worship the god of my youth so I let him go. That moment was the first time in my life I truly felt saved.
Conversations like this prove that there is no such thing as easy-believism. The measurables (repentance, baptism, tongues) are easy. Faith in Christ is the most difficult response to the Gospel.
Exactly. I've also always said that it is EASY to get rid of a TV and stop wearing shorts. What is HARD is trying to keep a good attitude when dealing with a jerk and truly feeling "love" for him or her. There is nothing easy about it, which is probably why it doesn't get a whole lot of "amens!!" when preached or taught.
I have taken upon myself to ponder and perhaps in a way answer the following statements
Well, since much of this seems to be spawned by me,
"You are not the first one to have spoken such things, it seems that others had similar experiences and that such things happen in the body of Christ is regrettable indeed"
I'll answer.
First.. I was not abused.
"Well that is good, however there have been people who have been genuinely abused yet they have learned t forgive their abusers and still are walking by faith"
I was tired of nonsense.
"Well to some people the things of God do appear as nonsense, but I simple understand that God's thought are much superior to my thoughts, so I just accept that there are some things that I will never understand with my carnal mind"
Tired of "Christians who weren't"
"Well Jesus himself said that tares would grow up in the field along with the wheat, so yes inside the church there are some Christians who simply aren't, however I also realize that many indeed are"
Tired of Hypocrites,
"Well yes it can be tiresome to deal with hypocrites, but sometimes genuine Christians also fail, so I prefer to think that a Christian who does something that is not Christ like is simply a brother that has stumbled, I prefer to give my brethren the benefit of the doubt, rather than judge them as hypocrites."
tired of going to church
"Well some people like to spend as much time as possible in church while others do not feel they need to spend much time in it, sometimes it varies with the type of church one is attending."
to hear the never ending money beg
"Well the begging does indeed get tiresome, but we need to realize that without money they church could not pay for the rent, the light, the water and all the other things needed to run a church"
and things from the pulpit instructing members to go take out a loan and give the money to the church.
"Well some preachers go a little overboard and no preacher really has the right to tell others to get in debt, that is not nice, but I guess that people also have the right to tell the preacher No, the Bible says 'to owe no man a thing'"
Tired of three services a week that went three hours long each
"Well I guess a lot of it depends on the church and the preacher, I have been in some services where after 1 hour I am bored to tears, while I have been in other services that have gone longer than 3 hours and I still want more", "People would spend days with Jesus hearing him preach, so I guess he could preach long"
and being blasted if I missed.
"Well being blasted is never nice, no matter what reason, However some pastors do not know how to encourage properly people to come to church, however not all pastors use the same tactic"
And yes tired of people on these forums with the disposition of alligators. Cross their preconceived notion and they bite your head off.
"Yes there will be people with the disposition of alligators, but that will happen in any large enough group of people with different opinions, whether the group is discussion Christianity or salads", "There will be some that feel so strongly that they are right that they will bite the head off of anybody who disagrees with them"
None of those things let to the state of not believing.
"I really do not know how to answer this statement"
I was also tired of the lies, giving some god the credit when the problem was fixed by science and medicine. and etc etc.
"Well some of us feel that God works thru different means, sometimes he works directly while at other times he uses science and medicine, but we still feel that behind it all, it is God who gives us the wisdom to do such things"
While I was in church, I was miserable. I hated every second of it. My blood pressure was through the roof, I was moody, grouchy, and hated getting out of bed in the morning.
"Perhaps you were in the wrong church, there are plenty of other churches around, even if some are farther away"
In the months since I bailed, I feel good, my bp is normal and I was able to reduce the meds, I wake up happy and in a good mood and it stays with me all day. Leaving the pentecostal religion was the best move I ever made.
"Well if the Pentecostal religion was not right for you, have you considered that there are others?", Some of use do not consider ourselves Pentecostal, we consider ourselves Apostolic
None of the above was the result for dis-believing. That comes from sitting and being sold a bill of goods about this prayer answering god who never answered one of mine... not for 22 years.
"Well Abraham waited for God to answer his prayer for much longer than that, and he did, an answer does not need to be given right away God has his own timetable"
Oh the religionists say, "he always answers, he is just saying no." Well, when you don't even hear "No," and instead get nothing but silence, anfter long enough you get convinced there ain't nothing out there listening.
"Well I have asked God to give me millions of dollars, but he always says no, so our ministry is poor, but we still keep on ministering despite not being given the millions of dollars we have asked for"
So, the combination tired of overbearing church,
"Well yes there are some overbearing churches, but not all of them fit this mold"
fake people led me to leave that.
"Well there is fake people in religion and in medicine and law yet I still go to doctors" and lawyers, so why should that stop me from believing
The lack of any response from out there helped with the rest.
"Well just because one person does not receive an instant response or does not think they received a response, does not mean that God is not there"
So, sorry, but nothing will make me step that way again except absolute irrefutable PROOF. And NOTHING AT ALL will lead me to put myself under the thumb of a church or pastor again.
"God does not give irrefutable proof, for then where would faith be at?"
"Faith is the evidence of things not seen", "Faith is what kept Abraham believing when everything else said otherwise"
Caio
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**Original Matthew 28:19 Restored**
(Oh, and I didn't have high BP. My main symptom was depression. And yes, leaving did wonders for me, in that area.)
Mine was Anxiety and Panic Attacks. Though I still occasionally suffer occasionally, none of them are related to the fear God, going to Hell, or missing the Rapture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne
Exactly. I've also always said that it is EASY to get rid of a TV and stop wearing shorts. What is HARD is trying to keep a good attitude when dealing with a jerk and truly feeling "love" for him or her. There is nothing easy about it, which is probably why it doesn't get a whole lot of "amens!!" when preached or taught.
The only thing I found that was "Easy" was going to hell. MY old preacher was always speaking derisively against what he called the "Easy to be saved" doctrine of evangelical churches. I always thought it sounded much preferable to the "Easy to be damned" doctrine of the UPC.
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“There's such a lot of different Annes in me. I sometimes think that is why I'm such a troublesome person. If I was just the one Anne it would be ever so much more comfortable, but then it wouldn't be half so interesting.”
(Oh, and I didn't have high BP. My main symptom was depression. And yes, leaving did wonders for me, in that area.)
Yeah, maybe a little of that to!
I don't hate or have any negative feelings toward anyone from my churchianity past. Not a one. I am just glad to be free of it. If, and I probably do, have any bitterness it is against the institution, none of the people.
Even my former pastor. I love the guy and wish him well, hope the best for him and all those there. But that doesn't mean I have to go back and sit under his rules and listen to his tirades....
A lot of this resonates with me. With a few edits, it could be my story. (E.g., I didn't hate every second of church. Actually enjoyed some of it. And I couldn't say whether God answered any of my prayers. More like, sometimes what I asked for happened and sometimes not. And none of the granted requests could definitely be said to be divine intervention -- after all, people do get over sickness, e.g.)
Yet we once had a member here who said he would have you on his church board!
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
Well, since much of this seems to be spawned by me, I'll answer.
First.. I was not abused. I was tired of nonsense. Tired of "Christians who weren't" Tired of Hypocrites, tired of going to church to hear the never ending money beg and things from the pulpit instructing members to go take out a loan and give the money to the church.
Tired of three services a week that went three hours long each and being blasted if I missed.
And yes tired of people on these forums with the disposition of alligators. Cross their preconceived notion and they bite your head off.
None of those things let to the state of not believing.
I was also tired of the lies, giving some god the credit when the problem was fixed by science and medicine. and etc etc.
While I was in church, I was miserable. I hated every second of it. My blood pressure was through the roof, I was moody, grouchy, and hated getting out of bed in the morning.
In the months since I bailed, I feel good, my bp is normal and I was able to reduce the meds, I wake up happy and in a good mood and it stays with me all day. Leaving the pentecostal religion was the best move I ever made.
None of the above was the result for dis-believing. That comes from sitting and being sold a bill of goods about this prayer answering god who never answered one of mine... not for 22 years.
Oh the religionists say, "he always answers, he is just saying no." Well, when you don't even hear "No," and instead get nothing but silence, anfter long enough you get convinced there ain't nothing out there listening.
So, the combination tired of overbearing church, fake people led me to leave that.
The lack of any response from out there helped with the rest.
So, sorry, but nothing will make me step that way again except absolute irrefutable PROOF. And NOTHING AT ALL will lead me to put myself under the thumb of a church or pastor again.
Caio
I already responded to your position on this thread so won't regurgitate what I already said. I just want to say that I read your post here with great sadness and that I love you and am praying for you.
You always treated me with kindness and a good attitude and seemed to understand my dry sense of humor when I would give you a hard time (some people take it the wrong way and get mad).
I know that God gives us free will and no one can make you believe in and love God but I will continue to pray for something to happen in your life that will lead you to a real relationship with God and you will know he loves you and that he sent his son Jesus to be the perfect sacrifice for you.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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