Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the Bib

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Yet you think to grant eternal reward to a soul that sins is not psychotic to you? You do not respect the Holiness of God. You fail to understand that God is Holy to a degree we cannot wrap our heads around. He IS holiness. He will not therefore tolerate sin in any degree to stand before him. There is no alternative but for sin, and it's partakers, than to be cast from Him for eternity. He will not suddenly change and allow sin in his presence. He cannot. It is contrary to HIM.

If one is not covered by the blood of Christ, having put on Christ in baptism, then you have only your own righteousness, which is rags. You are not sinless and cannot therefore enter heaven. The only reason we, the imperfect vessels we are, can enter Heaven is because we put on Christ and His perfection. That is our only hope.

This idea that one can die havign never put on Christ, then spend what amounts to a second in eternity's vastness in the fire of hell, then just say "oh Im sorry" and get a pass out of the fire and into heaven is nonsense. Such "repentance" isn't sorrow for ones sin. It is sorrow for getting caught and having to pay the price. It is like the murderer who coldly rejects authority and calls to express remorse, yet when the judge says "Guilty" suddenly they weep and break down. There is no sorrow for what they have done, only for the fact that now they must pay the price for their wrongs.

How can the eternal torture of a 15 year old pagan girl who never heard the Gospel be "holy"?

If that's true of God, I have more compassion towards my own children than such a God would. He couldn't be trusted with them.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Universal Reconciliation suggests that God will not fail with the vast majority of humanity and the creation in general, rather an elect enters in now, the rest later. All go thru a process of change, the elect are more sensitive, others for a multitude of reasons cannot receive truth now. The goats are loved, just not to remain as they are.

False argument. This assumes that just because some are lost God failed. It's only you guys that argue that. We don't see God as a failure just because some humans rejected Him. THEY are the failures not God.

The Goats are sent away never to return

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
Mat 25:34 Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.'
Mat 25:37 Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
Mat 25:38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you?
Mat 25:39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'
Mat 25:40 And the king will answer them, 'I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

You're are only quoting one half of the facts, yes, all men were condemned to the curse of sin, and became sinners as the result of Adam's failure.

Just as the MANY were made sinners, the same MANY are made righteous, thru the blood of Christ.

This is what happens when people lack the hermeneutical skills to interpret the word. What you are doing is taking that verse out of context (besides not even referencing it correctly).

The "many" first of all should be a clue. The bible says ALL have sinned and fallen short (Rom 3:23). So the "Many" is but a fraction of the WHOLE.

In context "The many" refers back to a select group of humans that Paul is speaking of, those that actually ARE saved.

Christ died for ALL but the MANY are the ones that actually accept His free Gift

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Yet you think to grant eternal reward to a soul that sins is not psychotic to you?

Me? I didn't claim anything about your supposed injustice concerning letting the guilty go free. But now that you bring it up, consider that the criminal justice system in USA is more or less built around the belief that to allow a possibly (but not provably) guilty party to "get off" is more JUST (not psychotic) than to possibly incriminate/punish the innocent. Do you agree with that concept, as far as human affairs go?

Yet you think to grant eternal reward to a soul that sins...

So please inform us which souls receiving an eternal reward will NOT have been a "soul that sins." I thought according to the NT writers, everyone would have been a "soul that sins" except the one who was the propitiatory sacrifice for those sins.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

False argument. This assumes that just because some are lost God failed. It's only you guys that argue that. We don't see God as a failure just because some humans rejected Him. THEY are the failures not God.

The Goats are sent away never to return

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
Mat 25:34 Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.'
Mat 25:37 Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
Mat 25:38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you?
Mat 25:39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'
Mat 25:40 And the king will answer them, 'I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!

SOME??? How about 90%+???
You and I have a long history on this subject, anyone interested can review our past posts.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Oh I disagree. It is that simple and yes indeed stupid of a doctrine. Everyone gets to go to heaven. If you are a sleazebag child molestor and killer who never repents, you just spent a mere second in the fire of hell until you say "oh shucks. I was wrong. I'm sorry". Then it's fastlane to heaven for eternity. Woo hoo. Everyone goes to heaven. Yay!

It's the emotionally driven drivel of bleeding hearts who cannot understand a God who is Holy and will not tolerate sin. Nor can you stomach that only our human minds find it tyrannical that God would punish eternally. God is not us, doesn't think like us and IS NOT bound to our sense of "fair" or "just". GOD is the ultimate arbitor of what is just and fair and if sin brings on eternal hell...then whether we like it or not that must be fair, just and good.

Universalism is simple (and stupid IMO). It is the natural reaction of spoiled kids who don't like accountability. Well..I don't like the idea of having to pay the ultimate price for not doing as God asks, so I will just ignore and change it.

Annihilationism is at least palatable. There is still punishment for wrong doing. Not like the free pass that is universalism.

So, you prefer a tyrannical, sadist type of god?? Of course God is not bound by mine nor your sense of fair or just. But He is bound to his nature, and to His responsibility to His own creation, not because of me or you, but because of Himself, His name, and His own honor. God IS LOVE, no where does scripture make as much about Him being justice. Have your evil god, I prefer the real God of love, righteousness, and holiness.

Annihilation certainly is much more palatable than ED, however, still not worthy of the Creator.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

SOME??? How about 90%+???
You and I have a long history on this subject, anyone interested can review our past posts.

Huh? Yes go ahead and see what I posted before. What does that have to do with the word "some"?

What does that have to do with what I said about God not failing

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

So, you prefer a tyrannical, sadist type of god?? Of course God is not bound by mine nor your sense of fair or just. But He is bound to his nature, and to His responsibility to His own creation, not because of me or you, but because of Himself, His name, and His own honor. God IS LOVE, no where does scripture make as much about Him being justice. Have your evil god, I prefer the real God of love, righteousness, and holiness.

Annihilation certainly is much more palatable than ED, however, still not worthy of the Creator.

God is not a sadist nor tyranical

[Esaias]

Isaiah 66: 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

To paraphrase one author: "A 20 yr sentence is considered worse than a 10 years sentence, a 50 yr sentence worse than a 20 yr sentence, and life in prison worse and more severe than them all. Yet, in all ages, the punishment of DEATH was and is considered the greatest and most lasting punishment of all, because it is FINAL."

The purpose of capital punishment has always been to remove the criminal from society. It is 'punishment' in the sense the criminal loses whatever he had left. It is the loss of what 'could have been' that constitutes the 'punishment' of the death penalty.

Eternal death is the loss of what could have been, eternal life with God and all the saints.

Of course, the wicked would not be happy in such company anyway, therefore there is no point in making them suffer for eternity by being forced to endure the company of God, the angels, and the elect.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

God is not a sadist nor tyranical

Amen!