Is baptism part of the new birth? - Page 5

navygoat1998 · #41 10-25-2013, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph

I agree....when people do not believe in the necessity of baptism, they do not give the blood of Christ enough credit!

How ya like that? Just joking/kind of.

Biblically can you point to where the blood is applied/washes away sin outside of baptism? Acts 2:38 says baptism is for the remission of sins. I know some here will argue that the "for" is "because" sins have been forgiven/washed away. However, Elder Epley posted a copy of responses from something like 20+ Greek Scholars/professors from places like Harvard and other well respected institutions of higher learning who without exception stated that the context of Acts 2:38 was "to receive remission/forgiveness" not because of. (This was in response to a letter sent to each one asking them to give their opinion on the grammatical construct and subsequent meaning.)

I have a copy of it on my other computer, and if Elder Epley doesn't beat me to it I will post it.

Paul was told to arise and be baptized wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord. (Paul's personal testimony Acts 22:16)

Why would the Apostles command baptism if it was optional? A commandment is not a suggestion, it is a requirement.

Just some thoughts from the peanut gallery

Bishop to be honest, I don't know that I don't believe that Baptism is just an option. I think it is the total part of salvation, I don't think that you can separate Baptism from Salvation. Does that make sense?

seekerman · #42 10-25-2013, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Exactly. And really should WE have to feel guilty about it as if it were WE who made the plan of salvation? It was Jesus the Christ who gave us this way. The Apostles were not ashamed of it.

The first sermon ever preached in the New Covenant Church Peter could have EASILY said:

BELIEVE for the remission of sins!

That's exactly what many would have been much more happy with. They could really get into a message like that!

But nonetheless Peter actually said:

Repent and be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

And according to Peter, only baptism is required for salvation....

1Pe 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Michael The Disciple · #43 10-25-2013, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

And according to Peter, only baptism is required for salvation....

1Pe 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Almost all confusion with understanding the Bible is due to the fact people don't regard the WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD. They take the easy parts and leave the rest.

We have to learn to RIGHTLY DIVIDE the word of truth.

bishoph · #44 10-25-2013, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

And according to Peter, only baptism is required for salvation....

1Pe 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Only baptism is required for salvation if, and only if, you don't believe repentance is necessary, and you don't believe it is necessary to receive the Holy Ghost. If one dies and is buried but does not rise to walk in newness of life, they are not/will not be saved. If any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of his. (Romans 8:9) and without his spirit you cannot be quickened or caught up in the end. (Romans 8:11)

Abiding Now · #45 10-25-2013, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

I'm saved! Thank God for water baptism in Jesus name that has given me "the answer of a good conscience toward God".

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

But, it ain't saved you.

Sure it did.

Esaias · #46 10-25-2013, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

Assuming that's when the blood is applied, that means that if a person needs something other than the blood of Christ for salvation then the blood of the Lamb isn't sufficient in and of itself.

Nothing but the blood of Jesus for salvation or the blood of Jesus plus something else for salvation?

And I'd be interested in you posting the article if you would.

Thanks.

In other words, faith is not necessary for salvation, because that would be the blood 'plus something else'. Anyone who teaches faith is necessary to be saved, is saying the blood isn't sufficient.

And the same goes for repentance as well. Repentance is not necessary to be saved, because that would be the blood 'plus something else'. And that would mean the blood is not sufficient.

Therefore, anyone who teaches faith is necessary to be saved, believes the blood is not sufficient.

And anyone who teaches repentance is necessary to be saved, believes the blood is not sufficient.

votivesoul · #47 10-26-2013, 12:24 AM

Hebrews 5:9,

Quote:

9. And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him...

Since Jesus was made perfect through suffering, and since He learned obedience through that suffering, He now has the sovereign divine right to be the author of eternal salvation to all that OBEY HIM. Seems to me that if one cannot obey Jesus Christ, who commanded water baptism (Matthew 28:18-20), then one cannot hope to have Him as the author of their eternal salvation.

Additionally, the Holy Spirit, being a promise of the Father, seems to only be promised based on one fact alone: obedience.

Acts 5:29-32,

Quote:

29. Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

I have seen many repent and not receive the Holy Spirit by faith until after they were immersed in the name of Jesus Christ. One factor being this:

They were demonically oppressed/possessed. It was only after immersion in the name of Jesus Christ that the oppressing/possessing demon fled/vacated. Immediately afterward (I can think of four different people I personally know) they received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave utterance.

Mark 16:15-17 might indicate this order, as follows:

1.) Believe and be baptized...
2.) In my name...
3.) Cast out devils...
4.) Speak in new tongues...

seekerman · #48 10-26-2013, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Sure it did.

How?

seekerman · #49 10-26-2013, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

In other words, faith is not necessary for salvation, because that would be the blood 'plus something else'. Anyone who teaches faith is necessary to be saved, is saying the blood isn't sufficient.

And the same goes for repentance as well. Repentance is not necessary to be saved, because that would be the blood 'plus something else'. And that would mean the blood is not sufficient.

Therefore, anyone who teaches faith is necessary to be saved, believes the blood is not sufficient.

And anyone who teaches repentance is necessary to be saved, believes the blood is not sufficient.

The conclusion then, one cannot know when one is saved? Repentance is insufficient, confession is insufficient, water baptism is insufficient, faith is insufficient, the blood of the Lamb is insufficient, infilling of the Spirit is insufficient, mercy is insufficient and grace is insufficient....to list a few of the things which alone are insufficient for salvation.

Since everything is insufficient in and of itself, what alone is sufficient, if anything? How can anyone be assured of salvation?

seekerman · #50 10-26-2013, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Hebrews 5:9,

Since Jesus was made perfect through suffering, and since He learned obedience through that suffering, He now has the sovereign divine right to be the author of eternal salvation to all that OBEY HIM. Seems to me that if one cannot obey Jesus Christ, who commanded water baptism (Matthew 28:18-20), then one cannot hope to have Him as the author of their eternal salvation.

Additionally, the Holy Spirit, being a promise of the Father, seems to only be promised based on one fact alone: obedience.

Acts 5:29-32,

I have seen many repent and not receive the Holy Spirit by faith until after they were immersed in the name of Jesus Christ. One factor being this:

They were demonically oppressed/possessed. It was only after immersion in the name of Jesus Christ that the oppressing/possessing demon fled/vacated. Immediately afterward (I can think of four different people I personally know) they received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave utterance.

Mark 16:15-17 might indicate this order, as follows:

1.) Believe and be baptized...
2.) In my name...
3.) Cast out devils...
4.) Speak in new tongues...

Don't forget take up serpents, drink poison and heal the sick. Verse 18 is part of the discourse also.