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  #21  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:14 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: The Bible Is Secondary

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Originally Posted by kclee4jc View Post
he identified no one as the children of the devil

i already answered your question
Ok, what was it about if not identifying who children of the devil were? You said..."Brad Lambeth- Children of the Devil (Tremendous message with a very powerful move of the Holy Ghost. This man is deep in the things of the Spirit.)". What was this tremendous message about if not children of the devil?
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  #22  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:18 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Bible Is Secondary

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Originally Posted by ILG View Post
I think most fundamentalist Christians have made an idol out of the Bible. Or, I should say parts of it. And have ignored other parts believing their interpretation is the authoritative version.
By and large, many Christians of all traditions have done this.
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  #23  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:43 PM
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Re: The Bible Is Secondary

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
By and large, many Christians of all traditions have done this.
I suppose.
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  #24  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:43 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: The Bible Is Secondary

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By and large, many Christians of all traditions have done this.
Yes.
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  #25  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:30 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: The Bible Is Secondary

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Originally Posted by ILG View Post
I agree with this 100%!!!
They had the OT. They had letters from the Apostles. They had the oral teachings of the Apostles as well as those commissioned and taught by the Apostles the words of Jesus.

Just because they did not have a complete NT from Matthew to Revelation does not mean they relied completely on direct revelation from the Spirit
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #26  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:46 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: The Bible Is Secondary

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
They had the OT. They had letters from the Apostles. They had the oral teachings of the Apostles as well as those commissioned and taught by the Apostles the words of Jesus.

Just because they did not have a complete NT from Matthew to Revelation does not mean they relied completely on direct revelation from the Spirit
What letters did they have available? Yes, they had the oral teachings of the Apostles but a standardized bible (and I'm not talking about the canon approved in the late 4th century) wasn't available to them. Peter didn't read Paul in his early church for Paul didn't write anything until the mid 1st century. Same for Paul in his church. He didn't teach from the writings of Peter for Peter didn't write his epistles until probably the late 1st century. There are good arguments that Peter didn't actually write the book attributed to him.
No doubt there were letters from various christian authors in the mid to latter 1st century, but we don't have a single solitary original snippet of them.

Fact is, we don't have a single solitary original snippet of what anyone wrote. We are demanded to have faith that the scribes which copied the original texts were 100% accurate in their copying. The thing is, subsuquent to the original texts there were copying mistakes on top of copying mistakes. There were passages added that were not in the earliest (don't know about the original) manuscripts, such as 1 John 5:7.

If we have a personal intimate relationship with God, we don't have to worry about what was added...or taken away.
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  #27  
Old 11-07-2013, 03:14 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Bible Is Secondary

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
What letters did they have available? Yes, they had the oral teachings of the Apostles but a standardized bible (and I'm not talking about the canon approved in the late 4th century) wasn't available to them. Peter didn't read Paul in his early church for Paul didn't write anything until the mid 1st century. Same for Paul in his church. He didn't teach from the writings of Peter for Peter didn't write his epistles until probably the late 1st century. There are good arguments that Peter didn't actually write the book attributed to him.
No doubt there were letters from various christian authors in the mid to latter 1st century, but we don't have a single solitary original snippet of them.

Fact is, we don't have a single solitary original snippet of what anyone wrote. We are demanded to have faith that the scribes which copied the original texts were 100% accurate in their copying. The thing is, subsuquent to the original texts there were copying mistakes on top of copying mistakes. There were passages added that were not in the earliest (don't know about the original) manuscripts, such as 1 John 5:7.

If we have a personal intimate relationship with God, we don't have to worry about what was added...or taken away.
I hate to be the one to say this. Nonetheless what we see here is a classic example of the way tares operate. Leave no stone unturned in trying to destroy faith in Christ. Keep tearing away at the scriptures till there is no way a person could trust the Bible.

Friends the devil has no better way of snuffing out our faith and dragging us back to a life of sin and forsaking the Christ.

According to some here one would be a fool to have any faith that the Bible is a supernatural gift from God. It is according to them merely mens ideas about the Christ and his teachings written decades after the apostles were dead. Then it was changed and miscopied many times over.

What better place for tares to spread their doctrines than on public message boards and forums?

The wheat and tares must grow together until the end. Be very careful what you receive in your heart.

True we have various topics we disagree about. That itself is a shame. But if someone believes in a Bible that is given to us by God there is always hope in coming to unity.

Once the Bible has been discredited the faith of that person is overthrown. Some of them will slide on back to the world of sin quietly. Others then like some here will make it their life mission to overthrow the faith of others.

Very serious business.
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  #28  
Old 11-07-2013, 03:21 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: The Bible Is Secondary

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
What letters did they have available? Yes, they had the oral teachings of the Apostles but a standardized bible (and I'm not talking about the canon approved in the late 4th century) wasn't available to them. .
I already answered that question earlier when I quotes scriptures

I already told you TWICE now I never said they had a COMPLETE NT bible. You aren't really reading what Im saying
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #29  
Old 11-07-2013, 03:22 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: The Bible Is Secondary

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
They had the Hebrew/Greek OT. They had the Oral traditions of the Apostles. They had copies of whatever NT book they would get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
Roughly, for the first 50-60 years they had nothing, just the Spirit leading them.

If one cannot hear or obey the Spirit, following the bible is an option, but is a relatively poor second choice.
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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
I disagree.

They had the oral traditions from the Apostles and they shared letters written to each church.

Col 4:16 And after you have read this letter, have it read to the church of Laodicea. In turn, read the letter from Laodicea as well.

2Th 3:6 But we command you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from any brother who lives an undisciplined life and not according to the tradition you received from us.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold on to the traditions that we taught you, whether by speech or by letter.

Paul went from church to church teaching them

Act 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we met to break bread, Paul began to speak to the people, and because he intended to leave the next day, he extended his message until midnight.
Act 20:8 (Now there were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were meeting.)
Act 20:9 A young man named Eutychus, who was sitting in the window, was sinking into a deep sleep while Paul continued to speak for a long time. Fast asleep, he fell down from the third story and was picked up dead.

1Co 4:17 For this reason, I have sent Timothy to you, who is my dear and faithful son in the Lord. He will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church.


1Ti 4:13 Until I come, give attention to the public reading of scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.

Php 1:27 Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ so that — whether I come and see you or whether I remain absent — I should hear that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind, by contending side by side for the faith of the gospel,

2Co 13:2 I said before when I was present the second time and now, though absent, I say again to those who sinned previously and to all the rest, that if I come again, I will not spare anyone,

1Co 14:6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I help you unless I speak to you with a revelation or with knowledge or prophecy or teaching?

Rom 15:29 and I know that when I come to you I will come in the fullness of Christ's blessing.

1Th 4:1 Finally then, brothers and sisters, we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received instruction from us about how you must live and please God (as you are in fact living) that you do so more and more.

As did Timothy who was instructed by Paul
2Ti 4:2 Preach the message, be ready whether it is convenient or not, reprove, rebuke, exhort with complete patience and instruction.

1Ti 3:14 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you

1Ti 1:3 As I urged you when I was leaving for Macedonia, stay on in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to spread false teachings,
As did John
3Jn 1:10 Therefore, if I come, I will call attention to the deeds he is doing — the bringing of unjustified charges against us with evil words! And not being content with that, he not only refuses to welcome the brothers himself, but hinders the people who want to do so and throws them out of the church!

And probably even Titus
Tit 2:1 But as for you, communicate the behavior that goes with sound teaching.

Tit 2:15 So communicate these things with the sort of exhortation or rebuke that carries full authority. Don't let anyone look down on you.

Not to mention the many other named and unnamed fellow laborers.

They had Teachers

2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house and do not give him any greeting,

Who Taught the teachings of Christ
2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not remain in the teaching of Christ does not have God. The one who remains in this teaching has both the Father and the Son.

They taught the Truth
2Ti 2:15 Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately.

They taught the scriptures (The OT)
2Ti 3:16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

1Ti 4:13 Until I come, give attention to the public reading of scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.

Christian teaching
1Ti 6:1 Those who are under the yoke as slaves must regard their own masters as deserving of full respect. This will prevent the name of God and Christian teaching from being discredited.
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__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #30  
Old 11-07-2013, 03:23 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: The Bible Is Secondary

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
I already answered that question earlier when I quotes scriptures

I already told you TWICE now I never said they had a COMPLETE NT bible. You aren't really reading what Im saying
Yes I am, you're not getting what I'm saying. What you're not doing is identifying what letters they DID have available. Start with the ascension of Jesus and work your way forward.
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