End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I think our brother has brought this down to a personal level...sorry he is not a debater but and attacker...

I think most would agree that a debate/discussion ceases to serve any purpose when the objective becomes character assassination, instead of discussion of the issue at hand.

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I have already said I have many friends that see women preachers in many different lights however we are not on attack mode and sure not insinuating derogatory remarks about their character.
I am fine in their presence...those that REALLY know me know I don't even like to get up before a crowd... I have no stones to throw...and have been watching my oven and the things we are cooking...gotta go help decorate now.

Right. There was division in the early NT church over circumcision, which bitterly divided the church in that time. The Apostle Paul sought to bring harmony by being all things to all men, and suffered many things because he tried to do that. Some felt if you weren't circumcised, you weren't saved, and caused great strife because of it. It was a harrowing issue in their day, dividing, hurting, and causing division between the Jews and Gentiles. And in our churches today, we have many such dividing issues (different because of our culture) but no less harmful in nature.

Each one of us have to do what God called us to do, and leave the judgment up to God. If you feel you are following the Word of God as best you can, that is between you and God. And if you choose to fellowship people who believe as you do... that is between you and God too.

Just don't judge everyone else because they don't see scripture through the same filter you do. Let God be the final judge, and quit trying to help Him out.

[Sister Alvear]

Today about 180 million people do not have any Scripture in their language. Such a challenge for our day!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I think our brother has brought this down to a personal level...sorry he is not a debater but and attacker...
I have already said I have many friends that see women preachers in many different lights however we are not on attack mode and sure not insinuating derogatory remarks about their character.
I am fine in their presence...those that REALLY know me know I don't even like to get up before a crowd...
I have no stones to throw...and have been watching my oven and the things we are cooking...gotta go help decorate now.

Nice try Sis. - I have addressed every-single copy-paste job you've posted on an exegetical level & caught you posting outright false & completely wrong information.


I have shown where your (& everyone else on here) eisegesis of I Tim. 2 & 3 is entirely off-base - & not one single reputable translation agrees with y'all....Hmmmm.


What have you done with all if this data? What you always do - completely ignore it & continue posting more misinformation - then chide me for not following proper "debate" protocol ?


I've already told you it's noticing personal & I highly honor your outreach to lost souls - but in this area you're teaching falsehoods & then refuse biblical correction - par for the course in "woman-preacher" land.


You are free to do as you please, but me & those I fellowship will abide by the Word of God - which could not possibly be clearer on this topic.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

1 Timothy 3:11
"Even so {must their}(not in the original) wives (gunaikas 1135 Women) be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things."
Earlier in this entire passage Paul has not specified maleness but has used words that can address both sexes. Now he addresses women specifically giving requirements for women to be church leaders. As we are talking about church leadership rather than marriage, the New American Standard translation below for this scripture is more accurate. The confusion was created by the word gunaikas, which does not differentiate between women or wives. We notice that Paul’s requirements for women leaders echo male requirements for ministry: Grave/grave, not slanderers/not double tongued, sober/not given to much wine, faithful in all things/not greedy of filthy lucre.
New Amer Standard Update, the NAS, RSV, ASV all translate "women" not "wives":


I wish you the best, truly; however, I disagree concerning women preachers.

The context of 1 Tim. 3:11 is clearly expounding upon the wives of the leaders.

Unless a woman is a husband...

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I've never understood men who made it their life's mission to get women out of the pulpit and off the platform. They should worry about their own wives, daughters, mothers and sisters and leave all the other women to submit to their own authorities. Do you fear for Sister Alvear's soul?

No Christian should ever have to defend their calling to other Christians. It's between them and God. Even if a woman did "misunderstand" her calling and what it entailed, if she spent her entire life working for the kingdom of God and doing everything in her power to accomplish His purpose, do you really think God is not going to honor her? And, further, do you think He is going to bless people who dishonor such women?

It is not about "women" per se. It is about the word of God and THAT is worth defending even when its unpopular.

FTR my life's mission is not to get women out of pulpits. It is to preach the word of God. There is to much to do for me to worry about what is happening beyond my control. I am not out to "get" women preachers but this subject has come up and I am stating I that women, by the word of God, are not to be preachers. Unless of course the woman can be the husband of 1 wife. I am not on a crusade to rid the world of women preachers but I will stand for what I believe. For women who feel they are doing what they believe God called them to do then may souls be saved and eternity right every wrong even when its my own. Until then I will preach the Gospel without fear or favor regardless of popularity. IMO women are not to be preachers.

Take Care

[rdp]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

At least he only made one remark about women teaching and didn't harp on it for pages on end.



LOL - Ummm, let's see if he "only made one remark" about women-preachers (which should be sufficient anyway ). Let's all count together - shall we?


11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. = 1



12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. = 2


34 Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says. = 3


2 So an elder must be a man whose life is above reproach. He must be faithful to his wife..." = 4



James 3.1: Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. = 5



Hmmm, seems like a whole lot more than "only one remark" .




Also, what bothers me about I Timothy 2:12 for the application you want


Has absolutely nothing to do with the "application I want" - It's simply the Word of God standing on its own merits without any tampering with it by me (which you go to work in doing below).


is that it doesn't say, "The Lord suffers not"; it says, "I suffer not...." Paul was referring to himself and his own preferences, which was largely influenced by the culture at the time.


Oh brother, here we go with this again. Guess he was playing around here also huh? "37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38 But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.


Further, I assume men can now have wrath & dissension in their hearts 'eh? "8 Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension."


So silly - Y'all just refuse to accept God's Word don't ya'? True to AFF form !


Which fellowship do you belong to?


I fellowship people who are completely honest with the Scriptures - & shy away from those that aren't...simple.


Hopefully, in order to be consistent with your application of scripture, you don't allow any pastors into your fellowship who:

lack self-control
behave indecorously
hit people (including their wives)
like to argue
are greedy
impatient
fight
love money
don't manage their house well


First, even if we didn't emphasize this as much as we should - it would only mean we need to tighten' up & not loosen up in this area ! Second, of course we attempt to practice these merits - the Bible says we should...Your point ??



Scripture is more clear about those things than it is about the idea of women teaching, (and mentions them in multiple places) so I do hope your fellowship has a rigorous vetting process for the men who want to be included.


No, actually, "Scripture is more clear" regarding supposed "women-preachers" than it is the things you've referenced above - you're merely attempting to downplay them (& they're even mentioned more than these other things).


Stubborn defiance to God's Word? She is obviously acting according to her own understanding of scripture and her calling, and, more importantly, as a team with her husband. More like stubborn defiance of men other than her husband who think they're in a position to tell her what to do.

Yes, stubborn defiance to God's plainly written Word:


11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression....I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church.


Explain it away until dooms-day - it'll still be there in eternity !


And, Mormons, JW's, Muslims, Trinitarians are equally "acting according to their own understanding of scripture" - Guess you'll now say that they're okay with God also ? In fact, why even have a Bible if we can operate "according to our own understanding" (the very definition of Universalism BTW)? In effect, you write your own Bible.


I am not trying to tell her what to do - trust me, she gets her revelations straight from God & "needeth not that any should instruct her" - But I do teach & preach the Word of God - & will always do so !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by ILG

No agenda here. I don't even attend church anymore. So, was I better off as a preacher or not going at all?

False dichotomy - Both are contrary to God's Word .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

so the woman became a sinner rdp...what happened to the man?

Umm, yes, the woman became a sinner - This is precisely what the Bible says (not that it matters):


"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (I Tim. 2.14).



??

[rdp]

Originally Posted by ILG

rdp. rdp. rdp.

That's the sound frogs make. LOL!

Wow - Lookie' at all that "substance" !

[ILG]

Originally Posted by rdp

Wow - Lookie' at all that "substance" !

Yeah, I don't waste my time with people who have their minds made up.