End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Actually, I read about a dozen or so. So you found one that agrees with you? Big deal. I read far more that don't. I'm not arguing over which scholar is more accurate, I just find it interesting that a woman is mentioned at all if she wasn't important enough. Certainly being a mere servant isn't that noteworthy, is it?

Drs. Wallace & Burer's exceedingly meticulous work has not been overturned on a exegetical-syntactical-textual level (not even by Gordon Fee) - only denied.


The textual data stands - Junia was not an apostle, but rather simply part of a husband-wife team "known by the Apostles."

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pliny

...With that said the passage is literal. However, Paul made exceptions to this. He is simply preventing women from taking the initiative in speaking and allows for exceptions when there are genuine pneumatic endowment - Holy Ghost inspiration through the gifts of the Spirit.

I agree with you 100% here. I agree that women are to only act under authority, and I agree the exceptions are allowed for inspiration by the Spirit.

Originally Posted by Pliny

This is an argument from silence. You assume Luke preached when that has never been hinted at. ....

I'm not assuming that. I'm simply pointing out that, due to lack of evidence to the contrary, you can't assert definitively that he was not. Ergo, it's a poor argument.

Originally Posted by rdp

Teaching & Preaching are used interchangeably in Scripture. Or, are you suggesting that when someone is "teaching" they are not "preaching" ?

I'm only interested in the biblical definition and apparent distinction between the two.

Shall I repost (for about the 50th time) the lexical definition of "teach" in I Tim. 2.12 - (only to be completely ignored of course)?

Sure. Repost it.

Originally Posted by RJR

I am not so sure the early church had a clear line of demarcation between the two. Teaching can clearly become preaching and vice versa.

Notice the interchangeableness of the terms in these parallel gospels.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Act 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ....

I do see that, but the definitions aren't interchangeable. When Mark said "preach" he used the word "kerysso", and Matthew used the word teach (matheteuo) which has a very different meaning. Was one of them misquoting?

If you take Colossians 1:28 apart and couple it with your position, you could argue that anyone can "preach" to "warn every man", but women must refrain from "teaching...wisdom."

Originally Posted by RJR

...Would you say that the ministry referred to in Eph 4:11 was not preachers?

I don't think they are necessarily preachers. The only role that seems to demand it would be that of the evangelist, and that one is subjective. I actually was surprised to find that it didn't mention preachers. I had forgotten and mentally replaced "pastors" with "preachers."

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Pliny

No S. Alvear is not a "prey". That is repulsive. However, she has made many unfounded assertions and has told saints that their pastors need a trip to Calvary. Do I need to post the entire quote again? She has made other remarks as well. It is one thing for a "saint" to make such comments. It is quite another for a prominent person to make those same comments. Like it or not people in leadership roles are held to a higher standard. As a missionaries wife she should uphold the same standard of ethic as every other ministerial family is supposed to uphold. Disagreeing is one thing but telling people their pastor is cowardly and needs a trip to Calvary is unethical in the highest.

Exactly - & go figure - not a peep about it from those good ol' "unbiased" administrators on AFF !

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by rdp

I see, so we're to go back & rehash the lexical data, exegesis, syntax, context, post links for corroboration, post sources, etc. - all because you're too lazy to go back & reread the thread.


Now I see clearly !

Yes, about as lazy as you are about parsing your quotes correctly. I will if you will.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by RJR

I am not so sure the early church had a clear line of demarcation between the two. Teaching can clearly become preaching and vice versa.

Notice the interchangeableness of the terms in these parallel gospels.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Act 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Would you say that the ministry referred to in Eph 4:11 was not preachers?

Exactly - & they've been told this over & over .


Not to mention the lexical data on the Greek verb translated "to teach" in I Timothy 2.12 - well, think I will mention it again :





In the NT, 1321 /didáskō ("teach") nearly always refers to teaching the Scriptures (the written Word of God). The key role of teaching Scripture is shown by its great frequency in the NT, and the variety of word-forms (cognates). This includes three noun-forms, two adjectival forms, and one verb, totaling about 220 occurrences in the NT.





This is specifically what women are forbidden to do "in the household of God, which is the church" (cf. I Tim. 2.12; 3.14-15).

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by rdp

And this is exactly why we do not want to waste our time with you - all you do is exactly what every other woman has done on here (& precisely what you just did).

Are you really this arrogant and condescending in real life or do you reserve that kind of ungentlemanly attitude for online conversations? I mean, really, if I asked you that question to your face, is that actually what you would say to me?

I am not speaking for any other woman on this thread or any other woman at all at this point. I've joined the conversation, and my posts have been respectful. Try to follow suit.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Are you suggesting that teachers are also preachers?

Teaching isn't preaching, although I do believe preaching is teaching.

LOL - Seriously?


Of course biblical teachers are preachers - is this the best you can do?


Acts 5.42: And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they kept right on teaching and preaching Jesus [as] the Christ.



Did they cease doing one while they were doing the other ?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

You are the one screaming out that verse, not me. Is it literal or not?

Is there grammar & context - or not?


Besides, again, go back & "read the thread" - we've already explicated this over & over & over - on a textual, grammatical, & contextual level.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Are you really this arrogant and condescending in real life or do you reserve that kind of ungentlemanly attitude for online conversations? I mean, really, if I asked you that question to your face, is that actually what you would say to me?

I am not speaking for any other woman on this thread or any other woman at all at this point. I've joined the conversation, and my posts have been respectful. Try to follow suit.

Okay -will do. Guess you just kinda' got caught in the cross-fire.


You have been more respectful than the others (though a lil' snarky at times).


You do seem more sincere than most - My apologies.

[RJR]

In regards to Eph 4:11 being preachers you responded...

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't think they are necessarily preachers. The only role that seems to demand it would be that of the evangelist, and that one is subjective. I actually was surprised to find that it didn't mention preachers. I had forgotten and mentally replaced "pastors" with "preachers."

All that would be necessary is to show where an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher ever preached. Yes, they are preachers! Truly, I amazed at the straws that many will grasp for instead of embracing what the Bible says...

A woman is not speak in the church, which has been clearly demonstrated to be in the sense of teaching and exercising authority over the man.