Thinking Things Through

[Disciple4life]

Romans 10

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaks thus, Say not in your heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

I really love this scripture. Nobody ever uses it though. Hmmm....

[Robert Sanders]

Originally Posted by Disciple4life

Romans 10

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaks thus, Say not in your heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

I really love this scripture. Nobody ever uses it though. Hmmm....

Are you worth saving?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Robert Sanders

Are you worth saving?

Are you worth replying to?

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by ILG

This would definitely help with the us against them theology that is prevalent in cults. Also the PAW is not as legalistic as the UPC in regards to the dress standards. I think that there are some in the UPC that are not legalistic with the dress standards although they believe in them and live them. However, speaking from experience, those that are legalistic are allowed to be the loudest voice and so the dress standards become salvational for many. Those that are not legalistic are afraid to speak out with their views but those views could free so many. If people really believe in the standards (and I believe many do) they should not fear that the truth about them will lead people to leave them. Truth is what sets people free.

I've fellowshipped with ALJC, UPCI, and PAW and you nailed it with regards to the differences between the PAW and UPC.

Churches can vary so much from one pastor to another. There are some churches i'd feel welcome to attend/visit in the PAW or UPC while there are others that, because of the "cultish" tendancies, I wouldn't step foot in.

[ludwig_v_m]

I can only speak to my own experience... that being when I left a certain organization there were a few things that I had issues with:

1. Fear of the unknown.
2. For my entire life I called myself a "Pentecostal" to the point that I had no other identity except that... pentecostal.

Leaving was very, very difficult because it had been all I had known since I was an infant and all of my family was still that (and still is that). So not believing I could go to any other sort of church because the only church that was heaven-bound was the one within which I was born (both physically, and by theological definition, spiritually). Then, once I finally did leave, there was the struggle to define who I was outside of that label. I had to strip all of that away and become human so I could figure out who I was as a person - and, frankly, still something I deal with daily.

Granted, this may bring nothing constructive to the conversation... just thoughts I had while reading through the thread.

[jediwill83]

Good post...Im kinda experiencing that now.

[ludwig_v_m]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Good post...Im kinda experiencing that now.

If you were talking to me with this, thanks. I'm a completely different person, really, than I was at that time. Though I have to wonder if I'm a different person or if I'm a person that is more honest than I was at that time. I won't give you any spiritual advice as I think that you'll have to work through things on your own. Not that advice isn't something you should seek but you should seek it from people who truly care for you and, frankly, know you.

I didn't have this luxury; or maybe wouldn't allow myself this luxury. I fought the fight all on my own - and that isn't a brag it merely is the fact. I didn't (still don't, honestly) trust people to have my best interest in their mind - and they often didn't - and that was difficult for me because I think you need mentors or help or something along the journey.

For better or worse, I no longer attend church in the traditional sense of the word. There are days when I believe and days when I don't.

I've spoken words to people (even recently), knowing that God was in them, but not really knowing the impact until days, sometimes weeks, later - and I'm not sure I understand why because I'm not a "good" Christian; nor understand why words I speak would have an affect on people.

I spend days thinking about life in general, my spirituality specifically (and about a lot of politics as well) and wondering about direction. The results of those thoughts are kept more secret than who killed Jimmy Hoffa. In fact, I've not spoken about them in years, really, except to my wife and kids. And, outside my family, only on the occasion when I feel chatty - which is maybe once a year.

I used to communicate all the time on FaithChildForum and NFCF - even started my own forum for a while. But, eventually, I realized that I was still seeking acceptance and direction from outside and needed to really become introspective in order to find direction.

Anyway, I digress... and hopefully you were talking to me... and I'll end by simply saying, I wouldn't trade this journey of mine for the world as I've become a better man for it.