Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

If the book is about the "drama" involved with the closure, then I don't need to read it to comment. There was a lot of drama at CBC, but not so much with the closure. That part was fairly straight forward.

Is the straight forward part the disdain the Portland-area pastors held for Fisher (long before he arrived, I might add), or the Mt Hood Retreat "scandal"?

[Sabby]

I have contended from day 1 that the reason for the tremendous Foreign Mission's influence was because of the grace/PCI orientation of the early founders of the school.

The spirit of the founders was less about doctrinal "purity" than about winning souls to Christ.

In response to Aegsm76's comment about drama: CBC had institutional drama initiated by hardliners with roots in California and their acolytes.

[Reader]

We met for an interview in late August of last year.

Interesting. Would you care to comment about that time? What was your impression?

I appreciate that Fudge is appearing to tell both sides. The references to other groups in comparison to what happened at CBC is also welcomed. It causes it to not be seen as solely a UPC issue.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Sabby

That "tiny little" bible college produced more foreign missionaries than any in the organization. Other NW "sons" had the familiar names of Moyer, Judd and Scism.

Aegsm76, I'd like to know your connection to the situation. The situation in the NW- especially in Portland- was TOXIC in the 70's and 80's. I attended and graduated from CBC with a dual Ministry/Christian Education major in 1980, class president and ministerial student assoc pres for the last two years. Oregon remains a mine field to this day for anyone with an other-than dispensational viewpoint and an other-than holiness (as dictated by the by-laws) or hell conviction. You're free to disagree, but I've got the T shirt.

Is it on Amazon?

I didn't mean to offend you by saying "tiny" but in the context of college sizes all UPC Bible Colleges have always been and continue to be "tiny".

I am sure part of that is because they are dedicated strictly to training for ministry. If the UPC had a liberal arts University there is a good chance it would be quite a bit larger. I was really rooting for the Great Lakes University that The Apostolic Church in Pontiac Michigan tried to start. While not a UPC sanctioned school it was a Oneness based one.

[Reader]

Great Lakes is/was endorsed by the UPC. Are they closed? Just tried to find the website.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

If I may ask, are they still dispensationalists?

Yes they are. They are still waiting for that drivel to be fulfilled and still in a church today that is death on anyone that does not believe in the dispensational message.

I read what you wrote about the three states and their differing views, Idaho, Washington and Oregon. Very interesting and very enlightening. Thank you.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by CC1

I didn't mean to offend you by saying "tiny" but in the context of college sizes all UPC Bible Colleges have always been and continue to be "tiny".

I am sure part of that is because they are dedicated strictly to training for ministry. If the UPC had a liberal arts University there is a good chance it would be quite a bit larger. I was really rooting for the Great Lakes University that The Apostolic Church in Pontiac Michigan tried to start. While not a UPC sanctioned school it was a Oneness based one.

No problem. You're correct about the size of UPC colleges in general. Sometimes the nuance is hard to pick up and I didn't know if you were being snidely.

Wasn't Great Lakes the one that Tom O'Daniel was involved with?

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Reader

Interesting. Would you care to comment about that time? What was your impression?

I appreciate that Fudge is appearing to tell both sides. The references to other groups in comparison to what happened at CBC is also welcomed. It causes it to not be seen as solely a UPC issue.

My observations of Tom Fudge were that he takes copious notes, is a good listener. He is a legitimate Church Historian. I've read blogs and notes here and there cynically sharpshooting at his degrees by "brethren" in the UPC.

It is easy to re-write history. Just control the information. Mao almost succeeded during his "Cultural Revolution". In the US the perception of American history - what actually happpened - is hidden amongst social issues within popular culture. I know no high school seniors that can tell me how our bill of Rights or government was formed, how it morphed from a confederation into states that were united and the social discord in both south and north prior to the great civil war. For the most part, our children have only learned what is being rehearsed by the popular culture, and it flies in the face of actual history. It's as if popular culture is re-writing history. Don't teach the truth and replace it with faux reality.
"The Aztecs and Mayans used picture-writing, but thousands of handwritten Mayan books were burned by fearful Spanish religious zealots, on four remain" Dr. Jan Barnes, Historical Atlas of Native Americans
To ignore history, re-branding it, or attempting destroy it will cause much greater harm than to know the truth. We have an obligation to the Way, the Truth and the Life to be tranparent with the truth so we don't repeat it

Let's face it. Sometimes history can rock your world.

[CC1]

What we need is a Kindle version of this book for $9.99 and then I am in!

[Reader]

LOL, I don't think that will be happening anytime soon, CCI! Not even his initial book can be purchased for Kindle at that price.

Thanks, Sabby, for your insight.

It is easy to re-write history. Just control the information.

I appreciate that Fudge is quite clear about oral history and the difficulties associated with it. It appears he attempted to obtain whatever he could on the history of CBC and some of the people involved, mainly Don Fisher. Besides many recorded interviews, he has shared many official documents as well as pictures. He kept a detailed journal during his time at CBC and quotes from that. He doesn't attempt to portray the UPC as any different from other groups that have rid themselves of those who have been seen as "weak in the faith."