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  #11  
Old 06-04-2014, 05:14 PM
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Disciple4life Disciple4life is offline
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

Well I received my copy of the book today. I probably won't finish it for a couple of weeks.

I start moving this weekend and hopeful I will be done by the end of next week.
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  #12  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:16 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

I am not sure a tiny UPC Bible College closing is worthy of a book but now that it is written I will be interested in reading it.

I would have preferred a book that covered all of the UPCI Bible Colleges with a look at their histories and fates.
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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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  #13  
Old 06-05-2014, 09:41 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
I am not sure a tiny UPC Bible College closing is worthy of a book but now that it is written I will be interested in reading it.

I would have preferred a book that covered all of the UPCI Bible Colleges with a look at their histories and fates.
Yeah, I kinda thought the same thing, but I ordered the book anyhow!!
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  #14  
Old 06-05-2014, 11:33 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

Quote:
I am not sure a tiny UPC Bible College closing is worthy of a book but now that it is written I will be interested in reading it.
It would appear that because Fudge attended CBC and was there when it closed is one reason. It isn't a history of the college and no other UPC college was closed due to the same circumstances. Jackson College is mentioned but that is because Fisher was there before taking his position at Conquerors. He shows how what transpired at CBC relates to other religious institutions who cracked down on "heretics". (Thus the reason for heretics being in the book title.)
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  #15  
Old 06-06-2014, 10:08 AM
Monterrey Monterrey is offline
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

Have a Brother of mine that went to CBC. I thought the only people that went there were just looking for a spouse! Didn't realize that doctrine entered into the picture.

I guess my problem with that college is it's extreme dispensational views that trickled down into their students. These views distorted their real life perspectives.

My Brother and his wife refused to have children based upon their teaching they received that the world was ending tomorrow and woe be to those that give suck in those days. That was 30 years ago and now they are lonely and old.

Just my 2 cents on CBC.
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  #16  
Old 06-06-2014, 11:49 AM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

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Originally Posted by Monterrey View Post
Have a Brother of mine that went to CBC. I thought the only people that went there were just looking for a spouse! Didn't realize that doctrine entered into the picture.

I guess my problem with that college is it's extreme dispensational views that trickled down into their students. These views distorted their real life perspectives.

My Brother and his wife refused to have children based upon their teaching they received that the world was ending tomorrow and woe be to those that give suck in those days. That was 30 years ago and now they are lonely and old.

Just my 2 cents on CBC.
If I may ask, are they still dispensationalists?
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Old 06-06-2014, 02:30 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

I'll wait on Tim Landry's book about JCM!
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  #18  
Old 06-06-2014, 04:30 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

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Originally Posted by StillStanding View Post
I'll wait on Tim Landry's book about JCM!
Tim was long gone by the time JCM had its exodus of teachers and the Keith Clark ultra con era began a few years before the end. Tim could give a good account of the beginning of JCM though.
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"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"

Titus2woman on AF
F


"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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  #19  
Old 06-06-2014, 06:01 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
I am not sure a tiny UPC Bible College closing is worthy of a book but now that it is written I will be interested in reading it.

I would have preferred a book that covered all of the UPCI Bible Colleges with a look at their histories and fates.
That "tiny little" bible college produced more foreign missionaries than any in the organization. Other NW "sons" had the familiar names of Moyer, Judd and Scism.

Aegsm76, I'd like to know your connection to the situation. The situation in the NW- especially in Portland- was TOXIC in the 70's and 80's. I attended and graduated from CBC with a dual Ministry/Christian Education major in 1980, class president and ministerial student assoc pres for the last two years. Oregon remains a mine field to this day for anyone with an other-than dispensational viewpoint and an other-than holiness (as dictated by the by-laws) or hell conviction. You're free to disagree, but I've got the T shirt.

Is it on Amazon?
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  #20  
Old 06-06-2014, 06:39 PM
Sabby Sabby is offline
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

Years ago, the Northwest District consisted of the states of Washington, Idaho and Oregon. The NW District purchased property in North Portland and created Conqueror's Bible College. After ID, OR and WA became their own districts, the school's board consisted of the DS of each district and a couple of other members of their respective districts and the president and administrator of the school. The board met to strategize learning content and process, finances and curriculum. Eventually the personality of each district began to manifest itself. Oregon got Californicated ("Don't Californicate Oregon!" Ruby Rutzen), Idaho was considered loose and very nearly heretical regarding her eschatalogy and PCI-leaning views on Acts 2:38, and Washington was in an "every man for himself" mode. At one time the largest church in the NW was Gene Ziemke's (a CBC alum) World of Pentecost. He got knocked down a few pegs by his "elders" over his position on standards. In the early 1980's I recall vividly a conversation my former pastor relayed to Mike Tuttle and me in talking about the looseness of Ziemke's position, mentioned a conversation he had at a General Conference with another preacher how to "Get them back" (to holiness), where the other preacher said, "Bro. ____, you never get them back".
Besides the holiness angle there was the angle of eschatalogy. CBC may have taught orthodox dispensationalism (now THAT's an oxymoron!), but some of their alumni were not nearly as rigid. The year the FMB refused to re-appoint Wayne Nigh to Germany was over his eschatalogy. Mike Tuttle commented to me (he met the FMB for an appointment to Holland, I believe, at the same time) of something Br Judd had said that no one had ever been interviewed by the FMB as long as Bro Nigh had been. What this tells me is that the eschatalogy issue was HQ driven and carried on by the likes of Winifred Toole, David Johnson, B.A. King, Phil and Paul Dugas, etc, in Portland.
Given the fact in the late 70s that military veterans were returning from Germany (from under Alvin Cobb and Wayne Nigh's tutelage) to CBC meant that these saints were arriving at CBC with a completely different world view than their dispensational brethren. Some were more outspoken than others. It represented a real threat to the "doctrine" of the "church" in the view of the more hard-line pastors, particulary in the Portland area.
The relaxed holiness attitude of the Idaho contigent only added more fuel to the fire.

I was not raised UPC. I was very energetic, but also naive. I preached hard and with conviction. You only need to ask my classmates. I was not hard enough on the doctrine (I leaned PCI) and my "end-time" doctrine was suspect. My DS, when siding with my pastor and calling me a liar told me I was "a nice guy". He didn't have the courtesy or courage to tell me that it was political, and for many years I took it personally.
I'm past that now.
I'm looking forward to reading Fudge's book.
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