Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i just told that to the guy who said "when did we see you thirsty?" and he said, "ok."

They were figurative unless you are talking about Jesus.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Luke

They were figurative unless you are talking about Jesus.

Luke, do you believe that those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will be filled?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

We should love our neighbor but this is never set forth as a means to heaven.

Um, what? 9/10ths of the Law? The Separation Parable? Luke, you have to be kidding me. Love your neighbor is the only way to heaven.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

How do you know that is true.

i don't know for a fact that Absolute Truth is another of God's titles; hence the "I think;" but it certainly sounds to me like it is in His sole domain! When you asked me about it, i was just minded of humans who say "always" or "never."

"If two views conflict one is right and the other is wrong or both are wrong but they cannot both be right."


you prolly like your pizza piping hot; i happen to like it refrigerator cold. Who is right?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

They were figurative unless you are talking about Jesus.

hmm, heaven and earth are full of them, no? i admit to figuratively asking one. But i think we have the crux of any of our disagreement, if you don't believe that LYN will make one righteous. I am surprised, tho.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i don't know for a fact that Absolute Truth is another of God's titles; hence the "I think;" but it certainly sounds to me like it is in His sole domain! When you asked me about it, i was just minded of humans who say "always" or "never."

"If two views conflict one is right and the other is wrong or both are wrong but they cannot both be right."


you prolly like your pizza piping hot; i happen to like it refrigerator cold. Who is right?

I like my pizza hot or cold though i will admit that fresh from the oven is the best imo. This illustration does fall short in that it is dealing with peoples preferences not facts. Two people may have two different favorite colors to the one maybe it is blue and to the other it is red. In the area of preference both can be right. However if these same to people look at a solid colored peice of paper and one says it is red while the other says it is white one of them is wrong or both of them are wrong but they cant both be right because they are dealing with definite things.

[shazeep]

yes, fair enough; but that illustration falls short, in that we are told that we cannot see what color the paper is; we see through a mirror, darkly, right? The biggest enemy may be 'certainty' in a human. You do not know; and i don't either. I'm not sure why this is--perhaps to highlight the need for love, and grace. Fresh from the oven is best for you.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Um, what? 9/10ths of the Law? The Separation Parable? Luke, you have to be kidding me. Love your neighbor is the only way to heaven.

Ah so you are literaly what those who stand for standards of righteousness and holiness are wrongly accused of being. You are a legalist one who seeks to be saved by keeping the law.


Lukem 28:46 and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem

John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 not of works, lest any man should boast.


Colossians 1:14
in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


1 Peter 1:18 forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

[Luke]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Luke, do you believe that those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will be filled?

Yes but i also understand that the unsaved do not hunger or thirst for or after righteousness.

Romans 3:10 as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

yes, fair enough; but that illustration falls short, in that we are told that we cannot see what color the paper is; we see through a mirror, darkly, right? The biggest enemy may be 'certainty' in a human. You do not know; and i don't either. I'm not sure why this is--perhaps to highlight the need for love, and grace. Fresh from the oven is best for you.

We can and should know the specific way to heaven:

John 14: 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.