Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

[returnman]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

That helps me understand! The time period you are referencing I was too young to be aware of all the church politics. And, I lived in the southern part of the state so was removed from it.
Yes CLC has it's own church so that made it very easy for myself and the other students to be involved in lots of different ministry opportunities without all the strife that was going on around CBC.
You mention the mindset that the only time students and the school were utilized was when the pastor of the particular church thought it was of direct benefit to him/'his' church. Sadly I believe this to be true because some of these same men still pastor churches in this state and that is their approach to pretty much anything that comes along. There are a few newer pastors who at times seem to reach out beyond their own personal interests for the sake of bringing the gospel to a lost world, but even all of those things are kept tightly held in the bonds of the official fellowship/district leadership. And they can't seem to figure out why their churches aren't growing (some of them are mere shadows of what they used to be 20 years ago). The trend over the past several years in UPC churches in the Portland Metro Area had been growth by migration from one church to another, and by the young people who get married and stay to raise their families in their home church (or their spouse's home church). And then pretty much the entire Eastern part of the state joined the WPF, making the district smaller in numbers and resources.

Been there and got the T-shirt.

[returnman]

Is bro. Moyer mentioned in the book? I used to have a copy of a summary of his teachings. Seems he was pretty strong on the doctrine from what I recall in those writings....Sabby?

[Sabby]

Are you referring to Hulon?

[Sabby]

I'm sorry, I misread your post. Ernie Moyer is mentioned frequently in the book and is credited for being personally responsible for getting the bank financing for the purchase of the property.
I met him while going to school and worked one school year as a gardener at Harvest Home, the assisted living facility he started a block away from the school. Moyer was a visionary and had a good spirit.

[RunningOnFaith]

Originally Posted by returnman

Don Fisher's dad was one of the kindest people I ever knew. My guess would be the he held a PCI view and was labeled "weak on the message". If wrong on that....correct me.

My impression from the book was that Fisher was a product of the PCI ethos of the Northwest. I will have to check the book again see what it specifically says about the teachings of the elder Rev. Fisher specifically. Having known him personally would make you a far greater authority on the man than I would be, I would never presume to correct you. I made the comment's regarding Fisher because it was indicated that Fudge or some folks here who had posted were looking at Fisher's career with rose colored glasses--that was not accurate.

I don't have the book with me, but I got the impression that C.H. Yadon's brother C.M. was in the Water/Spirit camp. Fudge describes some interesting things that occurred while C.M. Yadon's son was teaching at CBC. It is only conjecture on my part, but it strikes me as plausible that some of those with PCI beliefs discarded some of their beliefs when they discovered which way the wind was blowing within the Organization. The pull to assimilate and obey authority can be pretty strong even for preachers.

[RunningOnFaith]

BTW, some may be interested in watching these lectures by Dr. Fudge. Whatever ones doctrinal position, all of these lectures are informative and interesting. He is a very engaging lecturer.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WgTDplQabRk

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

I see a gahtering. In my opinion there is more unity among holiness minded Apostolics in the last couple years. Brethren who were divided by organizationl boundaries are enjoying fellowship.

Of course there are those who are going liberal and falling away too!

This is nothing but a "Trend" that will befall in time. When any Group attempts to accept others that have a different set of rules, the Handwriting is on the Wall.

I simply don't understand why we think our Era of time is void of repeating what has already happened.

In the end, Religion will always cut and divide, not bring people together in peace. Until Spectral Evidence is truly clarified within the Ranks of Religion, people will continue to create Dogmas that repel unity.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by RunningOnFaith

BTW, some may be interested in watching these lectures by Dr. Fudge. Whatever ones doctrinal position, all of these lectures are informative and interesting. He is a very engaging lecturer.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WgTDplQabRk

Thank you very much for posting this link. I intend to watch all of the lectures.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Until Spectral Evidence is truly clarified within the Ranks of Religion, people will continue to create Dogmas that repel unity.

i think that evidence can only be clarified outside those ranks; the two seem anathema to me. If religion is "man's attempts to reach God," how can it ever succeed?

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i think that evidence can only be clarified outside those ranks; the two seem anathema to me. If religion is "man's attempts to reach God," how can it ever succeed?

I agree. Spectral Evidence is the reason we have so many different Religions in the World. This is why the Courts shy away from Religious Law, as most of the Laws within Religion are based off of unproven Evidence.

Every single Christian I've spoken with, from numerous Denominations, they all say, "God told me". Since validating this is impossible, Laws are made that people cannot question and must obey, or else.

Unless they decide to become the enemy of that Faith, using valid Evidence to solidify Truth, not just ideas of a select Group who claims God's favor.