Is there going to be a rapture????

[Sean]

Oh, before I forget, Jason...WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE GREAT TRIBULATION of the entire world at once, brother, not everyday personal tribulation or regional tribulation from certain countries.


Jesus said this about this global event...Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Carl

Well maybe we could try the feasts in place of all of our traditional holidays and the resulting wait gain would be less!

Unleavened bread...yuck.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sounds like you have it all figured out, too. So I guess I should not post anything, right?

Just using your reasoning.

I make my choices you make yours

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

You have a problem here. Tho you correctly identify the rapture at the LAST TRUMP you are trying to make that happening either pre or mid trib.

And yet when Jesus comes AFTER THE TRIB he comes with the sound of a trumpet!

Watch this.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matt 24:29-31

So the rapture that takes place POST TRIB announced by the sound of a trumpet.

THIS MUST BE THE LAST TRUMP. If the rapture happens at the LAST TRUMP this in Matt 24:31 is that rapture.

The seventh trump in Rev 11 is this very thing from Matt 24.

Hope this helps.

Brother...the last trump is used in Rev 11....The scenario you have posted here is reexplained in 2 passages here....Matt 25,31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

And Rev.19,11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

These are the same exact scenarios and the Lord uses TRUMPET announcements, like a King arriving to conquer the world. The "last trump" is referring to the 7th trumpet sounding for the BRIDE in Rev 11. These 7 specific trumpets are unrelated to any other trumpet announcements made by the Lord or His angels, (In Rev. 4, John hears a voice like a "trumpet" talking with him, but it is not part of the 7 trumpets of Revelation).
The 7 trumpets are given here....Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound....
all of the trumpets are sounded, and the last one is the announcement of the rapture in Rev. chapter 11 verse 15....sinners are still yet to be judged for 8 more chapters.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sounds like you have it all figured out, too. So I guess I should not post anything, right?

Just using your reasoning.

Brother Blume, Mike the Disciple has the word! What he believes as endtime truth is manna straight from the backyard.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Brother Blume, Mike the Disciple has the word! What he believes as endtime truth is manna straight from the backyard.

Sir, when during a discussion of any matter a participant fails to keep the focus upon the issues, and elects instead to mount an attack upon another participant solely because their expressed opinions differ from ones own, then objectively and hope of arriving at a definitive, scriptural-based, mutually agreed upon conclusion is cast aside. Do you not realize what you've done by attacking MTD's integrity?

The condition I've taken the liberty to note here most frequently occurs when one or more of the participants in a discussion is either not sufficiently knowledgeable about the beliefs expressed by others, and have chosen not to invest of their time to learn of them, or they believe that their beliefs are so superior to those of the other participants that nothing that is expressed is even worthy of their consideration as to its merits.

When we discover that our beliefs about a matter being considered in discussions differs from others, we must exercise caution to insure that we do not lose sight of the objective of the discussion, and allow ourselves to attack another participant solely because they believe differently than we do about a matter. Logic and objectively are discarded when ill-feeling and hostility are permitted to replace a humble spirit and an open mind during such discussions. Surely you're sufficiently intelligent to know this!

Only through an intelligent, humble, and focused attitude by every member of a discussion about a matter, can any participant in a discussion ever arrive at a satisfactory conclusion which allows for the truth to come to the fore.

May God help us to always maintain such honorable attitude towards others when we join in discussions of spiritual things.

Respectfully submitted.

[FlamingZword]

Well I totally disagree with Both brother Sean and Brother Michael

I think they both have misinterpreted the scriptures.
It is like watching a debate between a Jehovah's witness and a Mormon; both of them are wrong yet both of them think they are right.

Of course they have a right to be wrong in their beliefs, for everyone has a right to their beliefs even when they are wrong.

But I believe that a sincere acceptance of all the scriptures, not just a few selected ones, would lead one into the Partial Preterist camp.

by nitpicking a few scriptures here and there while ignoring all the rest, support for almost any prophetic view can be stated, but when the scriptures are taking into their totality then those prophetic view simply do not stand.

I simply do not believe in the rapture doctrine, because I do not consider it wholly biblical.

[Truthseeker]

I am not convinced there will be a rapture. Still studying things

[Sean]

Truthseeker, maybe these passages can help you decide...God bless!

1 Thessalonians 4:17 - Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


Revelation 3:10 - Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Mark 13:32-37 - But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Matthew 24:36 - But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Revelation 20:4-5 - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

John 14:3 - And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.


Mark 13:32 - But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Matthew 24:42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 - For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 - And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Luke 21:36 - Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 21:34-36 - And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares.

Luke 12:40 - Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Matthew 25:1-13 - Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.......10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 24:27 - For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

And this passage....1 Cor 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Sean

I personally think that it is tied to the rebirth of the nation of Israel. The generation that was born in either May of 1948(Israels' rebirth) or June of 1967(Jerusalems' taking of the Jews) will be considered the last generation. Something will happen before either of these generations will die off.


I dont believe in the 40 year generation thing...that is nonsense. That is for the guessers of days like Harold Camping...

? About 10 million books written and dvd's made in the last 50+ years on why the great tribulation, beast mark- etc is all about to happen, yet still hasn't happened... Even tongues interpretations:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=36575

Please answer each of these questions in your opinion:

Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

1) What is the purpose of these words being spoken by Jesus to those people listening? (Crowd relevancy)

2) Why did he tell them that, if only some of the things(ie: the temple destruction) would come upon their generation?

3) If in fact (as is obvious by his words) Jesus was trying to let them know that all those things would come upon their generation, what words could he have better spoken to convey that to them?

4) What is the purpose of Paul (or whoever) writing the letter to the Hebrews and telling THEM: "For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry"? Was Paul wrong? Did he not deceive them in that letter?

5) Regarding the parable of the wicked vinedressers, when is/was the fullfillment of Matt. 21:49's "coming"?