A Few Thoughts To Ponder

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Again, some Pentecostals prove INCAPABLE of categorical thinking.

There are three distinct aspects to man's being:

Body - The physical aspect of a man, the body.
Soul - The mind, the seat of reason, will, and emotions.
Spirit - The very breath of life or living essence.

When a man dies, his body is placed in the grave and is unconscious or aware of anything. Therefore, as it relates to a man's body he may be said to be "sleeping". Upon death, the soul leaves the body and enters into the presence of the Lord. Therefore, as it relates to a man's soul he may be said to be in Heaven with the Lord. Upon death, the spirit also leaves the body with the soul and returns to God who gave it.

Therefore, one can be both sleeping in the grave knowing nothing and yet consciously present in Heaven with the Lord. The "Sleepers" incapability to think in categorical terms causes them to always assert false dichotomies that leave them debating among other Christians and using Scripture to assumedly cancel Scripture. In this, they cause the Bible to oppose itself.

Trust me, when Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount with the Lord, they weren't wiping their eyes wondering what had happened the during all the time they had been dead. In Revelation, the souls of the martyrs seek consolation in Heaven and they are assured that their deaths will be avenged when their brethren had finally endured as they had. Then they are given white robes to signify their righteousness and faithfulness rewarded.

Remember, the Old Testament is INCOMPLETE. It is fulfilled, defined by, and additional information is revealed in the New Testament.

Exactly.

[ixoye_val69]

Originally Posted by Lafon

I truly do commend you for expressing an interest to learn the truth about this important matter, however, as you can see, that is if you've read the things that have already been written by others, it can be extremely difficult, if not altogether impossible, to "weed" through it all and be successful in arriving at a definitive, scriptural-based understanding. If I could but offer this bit of advise: Always confirm the words of others, and that includes yours truly, with that which the sacred written word of God reveals about matters of importance such as that being discussed here.

Yes sir..I sure will..thank you. You are right..it is difficult because sometimes both sides make a pretty good argument. LOL

[ixoye_val69]

Originally Posted by Lafon

Sir, I know you do not mean to intentionally disparage me, but your subtle derogatory remarks are rather hurtful, and this because you know absolutely nothing about me or my situation, so please bear with me for just a moment & I will try to enlighten you.

I have been afflicted with a most devastating lung disease, known in medical terminology as Idopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis. The mortality rate for those who have been afflicted with this disease is, for the greater part, 100%, that is unless one is able to receive a lung transplant. That is not an option available to me for, being almost 76 years old, I am deemed much too aged to even be considered for such a procedure. The average lifespan of those afflicted with this disease is between 4-6 years, and I am most blessed, for I have had it for much longer than this.

My mobility, for the most part, is confined to a wheel chair and a motorized scooter. I also must be attached to an Oxygen Concentrator 24/7, and have portable Oxygen cylinders to attach to my scooter whenever I must leave my home. On days such as today when I am able to breathe better than I do on most days, I enjoy sitting at my PC and communicating with others about issues that are of interest to me.

Just so you know, and now I pray that you will be blessed!

I am still reading through all the posts but I just wanted to take a moment to say how sorry I am to hear about your lung disease. I lost both of my parents within a few months of each other from lung cancer but with them they passed within months of being diagnosed. The fact that you are still here means God is not done with you yet. I have total respect for you in the fact that even while dealing with this illness you still take the time to "pick up your cross" and also to share your knowledge of the bible with the rest of us.

[votivesoul]

Some of these ideas relate more to the field of theosophy, and that is where the speculations arise.

I look at it like this:

If I lost an arm or a leg to an injury or accident, the dismembered part of me is not "me". Same with a haircut, trimming finger nails, and etc. The soul of who I am is still incarnated in my body, even as the other "parts" of me disappear and die off.

As the old saying goes: you are not a body which has a soul, you are a soul which has a body.

So how much of my body can be lost (and not my soul) to illness, injury, or other forms of destruction, should I still survive the trauma?

There is a young boy who was born without a brain, just some lower stem. Last I heard, he is still alive:

http://www.boston.com/community/moms...years_old.html



Does he have a soul, even without the physical organ into which the mind is incarnated?

I say yes!

He is alive, and has marks of personality, expression, and etc., even without any apparent sentience or other identifying features of "soul".

If this be the case, I am convinced that a soul can be detached from the body into which it was formerly incarnated, and continues on. I am not sure that a soul dies with the body, any more than a soul dies even as a lock of hair, a finger nail, or even half of the human body is lost to injury, and so, dies off:



The destruction of the flesh, as severe and terrible as it can be, cannot lessen the vigor or life of the flesh. The soul is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11, where "life" is the Hebrew word nephesh meaning soul).

So, as the body dies, and the heart stops pumping, and the blood stops flowing, does the soul die as the blood loses life, or does the soul separate from out of the blood and carry on in a different state/place?

I don't imagine the human soul, disembodied, is like some floating orb of light, invisible but present. May as well believe in ghosts, otherwise.

So, even though I don't know which direction to believe, I can at least conclude this much:

Whether I live or die, I am the Lord's.

[Steve Epley]

I thought the question was will we know anyone in Heaven? I replied Peter, James, John who had never seen Moses and Elijah knew them? To me that is very telling. Also it states David will sit on his throne. Evidently they will know he is David?
It also states we will sit down with Abraham, Issac, Jacob so evidently we will know them?
I realize we see through a glass darkly but these are just some observations.
I believe the scriptures teach the righteous dead are asleep in Jesus until the resurrection.

[thaddaeus417]

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." Abraham's Bosom and the rich man in hell, the thief on the cross being told today he will be in paradise?

My belief is that the flesh sleeps and the soul/spirit will go to paradise if your saved or hell if lost. At the resurrection you will reunite with your glorified body. So, If saved you will go to paradise then heaven, the lost will go to hell then the lake of fire.

Will we recognize each other? no! Will we know each other as we did on earth? no! I will not know my wife as she looks today and I will not know her as my wife, I will know her in heaven for her exploits and as she stands in the kingdom of God.

[houston]

The flesh rots.

[seguidordejesus]

I understand why some would like to see their families or friends in Heaven, but honestly, I've probably given it 10 minutes thought in my life. What difference does it make? We'll be in heaven! Are you going to back out because you didn't see your mama?

That's not to say that studying it out isn't interesting

[thaddaeus417]

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus

I understand why some would like to see their families or friends in Heaven, but honestly, I've probably given it 10 minutes thought in my life. What difference does it make? We'll be in heaven! Are you going to back out because you didn't see your mama?

That's not to say that studying it out isn't interesting

I wish I has saved the link to a message titled "Heaven is about relationships". Like you I never thought much about the matter but after hearing that message I realized that it does matter.

[Roxanne Murphy]

I am intrigued that nobody has yet mentioned the parable Jesus told of the rich man and Lazarus:
“Finally, the poor man died and was carried by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and his soul went to the place of the dead. There, in torment, he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at his side. “The rich man shouted, ‘Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. I am in anguish in these flames.’ “But Abraham said to him, ‘Son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. So now he is here being comforted, and you are in anguish. And besides, there is a great chasm separating us. No one can cross over to you from here, and no one can cross over to us from there.’ (..Luke‬ ..16‬:..22-26‬ NLT)

Since Jesus is Almighty God manifest in flesh, the Living Word, the Way, the Truth, the Life, I tend to be certain that He above all would be able to tell a story describing a world we cannot see with our human eyes. In this particular parable, the rich man was very aware of his terrible circumstances. He also recognized Lazarus and Abraham and carried on a conversation with Abraham. That would not be possible if the soul sleeps in death.

And then there is this passage:
Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So he went and preached to the spirits in prison— those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. (..1 Peter‬ ..3‬:..18-20‬ NLT)

As my favorite Bible teacher of all time, Dr. Dan Seagraves, used to tell us in class, "to fully understand what the Bible has to say about any subject, one must first look at all the scriptures that pertain to that subject and understand them in context."