A Few Thoughts To Ponder

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Sean

Death is compared to sleep, even by Jesus concerning Lazarus His friend.

Before we receive our resurrected bodies, we are probably in a "sleep dream" state, while the wicked are in a "sleep nightmare" state. I have not studied this out in depth, but the Bible clearly says that all the dead are in some type of sleep. However, they are very aware of their surroundings.

This is why I don't like to use the term "soul sleep". Because for some it is similar to the immortal soul belief with a limited consciousness in death. If sleep is a metaphor for death that would not mean awareness. Where does the bible say the dead are aware of their surroundings? There are scriptures which say the dead not nothing.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

And, I've always wondered about those who were resurrected after the death of Jesus and were seen walking around.

And .... where might it be found written in the Bible that those of whom you note "were seen walking around"? A curious mind seeks to know.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by ixoye_val69

I think this is going to turn into an interesting debate. I am anxious to read the posts because I also have wondered about this very thing. Great question. I love this forum.

I truly do commend you for expressing an interest to learn the truth about this important matter, however, as you can see, that is if you've read the things that have already been written by others, it can be extremely difficult, if not altogether impossible, to "weed" through it all and be successful in arriving at a definitive, scriptural-based understanding. If I could but offer this bit of advise: Always confirm the words of others, and that includes yours truly, with that which the sacred written word of God reveals about matters of importance such as that being discussed here.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Peter, James, John knew Moses and Elijah on the Mountain?

Bro Epley, I don't mean to sound mean or condescending in stating this, but I must wonder how your posting adds anything to the issue being addressed here, seeing that it ends with a question mark, but nothing added which might serve to answer it. If you've introduced yourself into this discussion in order to give your opinion about the matter, then may I ask that you do a bit more than cause more questions to arise without providing an answer to any. Not being harsh, just being candid.

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Lafon

And .... where might it be found written in the Bible that those of whom you note "were seen walking around"? A curious mind seeks to know.

Matthew 27:52-53.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Lafon

Bro Epley, I don't mean to sound mean or condescending in stating this, but I must wonder how your posting adds anything to the issue being addressed here, seeing that it ends with a question mark, but nothing added which might serve to answer it. If you've introduced yourself into this discussion in order to give your opinion about the matter, then may I ask that you do a bit more than cause more questions to arise without providing an answer to any. Not being harsh, just being candid.

Wow look at you post! Man you must of had yourself a steak with eggs and bacon this morning!

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Wow look at you post! Man you must of had yourself a steak with eggs and bacon this morning!

Sir, I know you do not mean to intentionally disparage me, but your subtle derogatory remarks are rather hurtful, and this because you know absolutely nothing about me or my situation, so please bear with me for just a moment & I will try to enlighten you.

I have been afflicted with a most devastating lung disease, known in medical terminology as Idopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis. The mortality rate for those who have been afflicted with this disease is, for the greater part, 100%, that is unless one is able to receive a lung transplant. That is not an option available to me for, being almost 76 years old, I am deemed much too aged to even be considered for such a procedure. The average lifespan of those afflicted with this disease is between 4-6 years, and I am most blessed, for I have had it for much longer than this.

My mobility, for the most part, is confined to a wheel chair and a motorized scooter. I also must be attached to an Oxygen Concentrator 24/7, and have portable Oxygen cylinders to attach to my scooter whenever I must leave my home. On days such as today when I am able to breathe better than I do on most days, I enjoy sitting at my PC and communicating with others about issues that are of interest to me.

Just so you know, and now I pray that you will be blessed!

[Aquila]

Again, some Pentecostals prove INCAPABLE of categorical thinking.

There are three distinct aspects to man's being:

Body - The physical aspect of a man, the body.
Soul - The mind, the seat of reason, will, and emotions.
Spirit - The very breath of life or living essence.

When a man dies, his body is placed in the grave and is unconscious or aware of anything. Therefore, as it relates to a man's body he may be said to be "sleeping". Upon death, the soul leaves the body and enters into the presence of the Lord. Therefore, as it relates to a man's soul he may be said to be in Heaven with the Lord. Upon death, the spirit also leaves the body with the soul and returns to God who gave it.

Therefore, one can be both sleeping in the grave knowing nothing and yet consciously present in Heaven with the Lord. The "Sleepers" incapability to think in categorical terms causes them to always assert false dichotomies that leave them debating among other Christians and using Scripture to assumedly cancel Scripture. In this, they cause the Bible to oppose itself.

Trust me, when Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount with the Lord, they weren't wiping their eyes wondering what had happened the during all the time they had been dead. In Revelation, the souls of the martyrs seek consolation in Heaven and they are assured that their deaths will be avenged when their brethren had finally endured as they had. Then they are given white robes to signify their righteousness and faithfulness rewarded.

Remember, the Old Testament is INCOMPLETE. It is fulfilled, defined by, and additional information is revealed in the New Testament.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Again, some Pentecostals prove INCAPABLE of categorical thinking.

There are three distinct aspects to man's being:

Body - The physical aspect of a man, the body.
Soul - The mind, the seat of reason, will, and emotions.
Spirit - The very breath of life or living essence.

When a man dies, his body is placed in the grave and is unconscious or aware of anything. Therefore, as it relates to a man's body he may be said to be "sleeping". Upon death, the soul leaves the body and enters into the presence of the Lord. Therefore, as it relates to a man's soul he may be said to be in Heaven with the Lord. Upon death, the spirit also leaves the body with the soul and returns to God who gave it.

Therefore, one can be both sleeping in the grave knowing nothing and yet consciously present in Heaven with the Lord. The "Sleepers" incapability to think in categorical terms causes them to always assert false dichotomies that leave them debating among other Christians and using Scripture to assumedly cancel Scripture. In this, they cause the Bible to oppose itself.

Trust me, when Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount with the Lord, they weren't wiping their eyes wondering what had happened the during all the time they had been dead. In Revelation, the souls of the martyrs seek consolation in Heaven and they are assured that their deaths will be avenged when their brethren had finally endured as they had. Then they are given white robes to signify their righteousness and faithfulness rewarded.

Remember, the Old Testament is INCOMPLETE. It is fulfilled, defined by, and additional information is revealed in the New Testament.

I would be quick to agree that you have gotten the part of your statements that I've highlighted correctly, for Paul alluded to this fact in his writings of I Thessalonians 5:23, however, regarding the remaining portion of your posting, I must regrettably confess to you, that it is, in my opinion, thoroughly saturated with what I can only classify as "speculative platitudes," seeing that they are destitute of any scriptural evidence which would serve to authenticate their veracity.

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Again, some Pentecostals prove INCAPABLE of categorical thinking.

There are three distinct aspects to man's being:

Body - The physical aspect of a man, the body.
Soul - The mind, the seat of reason, will, and emotions.
Spirit - The very breath of life or living essence.

When a man dies, his body is placed in the grave and is unconscious or aware of anything. Therefore, as it relates to a man's body he may be said to be "sleeping". Upon death, the soul leaves the body and enters into the presence of the Lord. Therefore, as it relates to a man's soul he may be said to be in Heaven with the Lord. Upon death, the spirit also leaves the body with the soul and returns to God who gave it.

Therefore, one can be both sleeping in the grave knowing nothing and yet consciously present in Heaven with the Lord. The "Sleepers" incapability to think in categorical terms causes them to always assert false dichotomies that leave them debating among other Christians and using Scripture to assumedly cancel Scripture. In this, they cause the Bible to oppose itself.

Trust me, when Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount with the Lord, they weren't wiping their eyes wondering what had happened the during all the time they had been dead. In Revelation, the souls of the martyrs seek consolation in Heaven and they are assured that their deaths will be avenged when their brethren had finally endured as they had. Then they are given white robes to signify their righteousness and faithfulness rewarded.

Remember, the Old Testament is INCOMPLETE. It is fulfilled, defined by, and additional information is revealed in the New Testament.

There is life, then death, then the resurrection. That is very categorical.