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  #561  
Old 11-06-2014, 07:18 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
They ate Unleavened bread for 7 days.

Notice it says "Then were the days of unleavened bread"..Days. Plural

Act 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

The Feast was approaching..it was a 7 day Holiday that began with the Passover.

Passover is a major Jewish Holy day. So Harod waited for it to end.


Feast of Unleavened Bread. The Feast of Unleavened Bread was a week-long remembrance that consecrated the coming season. It may be considered an extension of the Passover feast rather than an independent holiday. The biblical texts intertwine the two feasts, with the Passover celebrated on the first day of the feast—the 14th of Abib—and the Feast of Unleavened Bread celebrated on the following day—the 15th of Abib (Exod 13:3–10; Lev 23:4–8). The Feast of Unleavened Bread continued for seven days and required daily offerings. It concluded with a convocation and rest from laborious activity (Lev 23:8).
The feast demanded a rejection of leavened bread from the Israelites’ meals, households, and storage places (Deut 16:4)
While the Feast of Unleavened Bread is not a pilgrimage feast, it was often celebrated in Jerusalem, since Passover’s pilgrimage would have already occurred. This feast likely included the waving of the first fruits, signaling the dedication of the coming growing season (Exod 34:26; Lev 23:10–14).


Swann, J. T. (2012). Feasts and Festivals of Israel. In J. D. Barry & L. Wentz (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary (J. D. Barry & L. Wentz, Ed.). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

However sometimes Passover includes the feast, because the two were combined into one Holy event


The Passover with the Disciples
17 Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the Passover?” 18 He said, “Go into the city to a certain man and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, My time is at hand. I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples.’ ” 19 And the disciples did as Jesus had directed them, and they prepared the Passover.

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. 2001 (Mt 26:17–19). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

22 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called the Passover. 2 And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how to put him to death, for they feared the people.

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. 2001 (Lk 22:1–2). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

For you KJV onliest out there

Luk 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
Luk 22:2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
Just what I said. Amen. Ezekiel 21:45 proves this. Same pattern as Acts 12:3-4
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  #562  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:35 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Exactly. The Majority Text and Massoretic text are the deal. We said that but Sean chose not to see we did.
The "majority text" has issues: http://solascriptura-tt.org/Bibliolo...ture-Cloud.htm

The Masoretic text has issues as well.

For those who recommend NOT using the KJV, I have a simple and sincere question: Where can I find THE WORDS OF GOD?
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  #563  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:59 PM
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
that is just not true. Study languages and you'll see that all languages evolve over time. The English they spoke in 1600 is not the same as today. We don't see "Ye" and "thou" because our language has evolved.

Many words used THEN have evolved in meaning. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant because it still means the language of the KJV is outdated...from an era that is long past, from a time when words did not always mean what they mean today.

Yes Victorian English is outdated
Prax I have taught English grammar for 15 years to both middle and high school students. I have both studied and taught New Testament Greek (I am no expert in Greek though). I also study and teach English literature. So forgive me if I say you might think you know what you are talking about, but you don't, because you seem to be missing the point.

The 1611 English Bible certainly contains words and constructions many Americans find utterly baffling and foreign. So does the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The idea that English NOT ONLY has changed so much that the 1611 might as well be Old English BUT ALSO that we need to update the English versions every year or two is not merely laughable but downright fraudulent.

What sentence in the KJV can NOT be understood by someone with a working fluency in English? I mean a GRAMMATICAL difficulty posed ONLY by the English text?

Our family uses the KJV. We speak English. I honestly don't see how there's any problem OTHER than people are half-illiterate and lazy. I say that from personal interactions with a lot of people. IT ISN'T ABOUT THE BIBLE ONLY. This problem is across the board. I know people who can't comprehend things written FIFTY YEARS AGO. And the reason is they are functioning illiterates and they are unwilling to learn English.

So what if people don't use thee or ye in conversational English? How many Americans use or even understand what a syllogism is? Should we drop THAT word? Or should we push for greater literacy and understanding?

Besides, why is it the ones giving us these "better English translations" are busy doing a bait and switch with the texts?

And for those who think king James' involvement means we ought to dump the KJV, what about Westcott? What about others involved in producing texts and translations who all had issues that ansolutely DWARF any ole kibg James may have had?

You do realize ALL - A L L - of the manuscripts are "catholic", right?

And we haven't even broached the issue of who the "guardians" of the Masoretic text have been.
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Last edited by Esaias; 11-07-2014 at 12:01 AM.
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  #564  
Old 11-07-2014, 12:09 AM
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

Perusing the web I find the cacophany of voices demanding and end to the KJV or the most part coming from the liberal, unspiritual, modernist, compromised side of the spectrum. Just an observation.

BTW, I guess I'm archaic and outdated cuz I uses "modernist" to mean an adherent, practitioner, or promoter of MODERNISM, a particular world-view or paradigm, and NIT in the sense of "up to date".
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  #565  
Old 11-07-2014, 12:15 AM
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

According to my concordances there are Hebrew and Greek words found in the text which are "unused" and archaic. They were thus when they were penned were they not?

Ponder on that...
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  #566  
Old 11-07-2014, 12:28 AM
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post

What sentence in the KJV can NOT be understood by someone with a working fluency in English? I mean a GRAMMATICAL difficulty posed ONLY by the English text?
LOTS of people. Lots have no idea what Godhead means in Col 2.

Ive already proven how definitions of words evolve over time. "Conversation" back then did not necessarily mean a dialog between two people.

Lot's of people read the KJV as if it was written today with the same definition of words.

The KJV was translated into a language that has evolved over time and carries different meanings to the words.

They even translated Hypostasis as Person.

And yes there are a lot of people that have no idea what mammon means without a Strongs Dictionary.

there are archaic words we don't use any more like Listeth and Wist
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  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
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  #567  
Old 11-07-2014, 12:30 AM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
According to my concordances there are Hebrew and Greek words found in the text which are "unused" and archaic. They were thus when they were penned were they not?

Ponder on that...
An archaic Hebrew word simply means it fell out of use, but it can still be translated in a language that is NOT archaic
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #568  
Old 11-07-2014, 03:52 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

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LOTS of people. Lots have no idea what Godhead means in Col 2.
Well the first few times of reading it I may have questioned it but soon caught on that it refers to God.

Im sure many people do not know what "divine" means either. And some think they do but dont.

Quote:
They even translated Hypostasis as Person.
Well guess what?

At least in my Strongs the word "person" is given as a definition. It seems to be at least equally valid to the translations for that word in my 8 version Bible.
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  #569  
Old 11-07-2014, 07:09 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The "majority text" has issues: http://solascriptura-tt.org/Bibliolo...ture-Cloud.htm

The Masoretic text has issues as well.

For those who recommend NOT using the KJV, I have a simple and sincere question: Where can I find THE WORDS OF GOD?
That website seems to say the Received Text is not necessarily the "majority text"?
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  #570  
Old 11-07-2014, 08:02 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

As a boy I fell in love with the Bible only had the KJV you know it was not a great problem for me to comprehend. Yes I had to look up some words but if a simply Ky boy could read it I fail to see what the conflict is. God never expected us to learn ancient Hebrew or Greek.
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