"in the Spirit"

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

An example of what false teaching does. If one understands the Apostles teaching they would see themselves being COMMANDED to pray in tongues ALWAYS!

Paul defined praying in the spirit as praying in tongues. Then he commands the Ephesian Christians to pray in the spirit ALWAYS.

Jude tells his readers the same thing.

Today many if not most who think they are "Apostolic" have been taught they will only speak in tongues one time and thats it, robbing them of all the edifying power God has for them.

While I agree with the general premise, that we should regularly pray in tongues (which I truly enjoy), I do believe that one can be "in the Spirit" and not speak in tongues. One can be "in the Spirit" while preaching, sitting quietly, while contemplating, while meditating on Scripture, while Studying Scripture, and while simply praying quietly or in their native tongue.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The context of the verse in question is the meeting, and Paul says that we are to prefer prophesying to tongues. He does not limit "in the spirit" to only unknown tongues as the surrounding verses show.

Nowhere is praying in the spirit defined as "praying in tongues". Although praying in tongues is praying in the spirit, the reverse is not true.

For example: Although all genuine miracles are works of the Spirit, not all works of the Spirit are miracles. Although all prophesying is speaking in the Spirit, not all speaking in the Spirit is prophesying.

So the apostle rightly states that if he prays, sings, or speaks in tongues, then he is praying, singing, and speaking in the spirit, because all those activities are done "in the spirit". But it would be an error to say all speaking, praying, or singing in the spirit must necessarily be in tongues.

Further, "my spirit prays but my understanding is unfruitful" does not mean ALL praying in the spirit is unintelligible, otherwise it would mean all praying that is understandable is done WITHOUT THE SPIRIT, which is absurd. For if that were true, no praying would be useful or acceptable unless it was wholly in unknown tongues! What he is saying is plain: if he prays in tongues he is praying in the spirit, BUT his understanding is unfruitful.

Notice the ONLY passage in all the bible that talks about praying in tongues is in the heart of a teaching on the superiority of prophesying to tongues, surrounded by instructions for tongue-talker to PRAY FOR INTERPRETATION.

I've often wonder if the indication that Paul's, "understanding being unfruitful", meant that he couldn't understand himself... or could it mean that what he said in tongues was unfruitful for those listening?

Just thinking here... not being dogmatic or argumentative.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Anyone who has ever experienced travailing intercessory prayer knows that praying in the spirit is not limited to praying in tongues. Perhaps not enough people have experienced genuine travailing intercessory prayer, so the only praying in the spirit they know is tongues?

Excellent post.

[Aquila]

Here's a question:

If "praying in the Spirit" is always "praying in tongues"... does this mean that when we pray in English... we're not in the Spirit?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Anyone who has ever experienced travailing intercessory prayer knows that praying in the spirit is not limited to praying in tongues. Perhaps not enough people have experienced genuine travailing intercessory prayer, so the only praying in the spirit they know is tongues?

Are you saying that in "travailing intercessory prayer", you probably won't always speak in tongues? Because, I don't see how that could happen when the Spirit of the Lord is present.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The context of the verse in question is the meeting, and Paul says that we are to prefer prophesying to tongues. He does not limit "in the spirit" to only unknown tongues as the surrounding verses show.

In context of what he meant in 1 Cor 14 about praying in the spirit, it was solely tongues. That same phrase is not found anywhere else. But I agree being in the spirit does not necessarily mean in tongues. But prayer in tongues in this chapter does state that.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's a question:

If "praying in the Spirit" is always "praying in tongues"... does this mean that when we pray in English... we're not in the Spirit?

You're praying with the understanding when in your native language.

[mfblume]

1 Corinthians 14:14-15 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. (15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

The context shows praying with understanding to be prayer in native language. it's a contrast from native language to tongues respectively when it says with understanding and in the spirit.

You folks are mistaking him to say it is a contrast between being in the Spirit OF GOD or in the flesh. In the spirit here is not IN THE SPIRIT OF GOD. It does not mean not in the flesh. It simply means not with understanding. MY HUMAN SPIRIT prays when I pray in tongues. It is a lower case "S" in English to indicate human spirit.

Paul said MY SPIRIT prayeth.

1Co 14:14 KJV For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

1 Corinthians 14:14-15 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. (15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

The context shows praying with understanding to be prayer in native language. [B]it's a contrast from native language to tongues respectively when it says with understanding and in the spirit.[/B]

You folks are mistaking him to say it is a contrast between being in the Spirit OF GOD or in the flesh. In the spirit here is not IN THE SPIRIT OF GOD. It does not mean not in the flesh. It simply means not with understanding. MY HUMAN SPIRIT prays when I pray in tongues. It is a lower case "S" in English to indicate human spirit.

Paul said MY SPIRIT prayeth.

1Co 14:14 KJV For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Are you saying that in "travailing intercessory prayer", you probably won't always speak in tongues? Because, I don't see how that could happen when the Spirit of the Lord is present.

Here is a scripture that lets us know that deep spiritual prayer doesn't have to include speaking in tongues.

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. Romans 8:26