Love One Another and the Cross

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i'll take what you consider a bloodless Gospel over dead faith any day, and i find Christ agrees with me! "Go, and do likewise." "Love is 9/10ths."

I would take anything over a dead faith too! Fact is I never said our faith should have no works. You talk like I never said that though. Love is 9/10 of law and law saves no one.

Us loving people does not save us. That is salvation by works. But I already said that dozens of times and you act like I never did.

I asked you to survey my thoughts on 1 Tm 1 and Romans 8 and the explanation of how law could save if we had no sin, but it cannot sin we have sin. And you never responded. Why?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I ask you to focus on what I said here:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=163

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=164

It, I think, is the basis of our differences.

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[mfblume]

The issue here is that you feel anyone who claims people are lost is a hypocrite, because you think that automatically means they're exalting themselves, and they are gloating and thinking "Nyah nyah, you're lost. I'm not. Nyah nyah."

Meanwhile that's nonsense. There is such a thing as objectively stating what the bible says about who is lost, and that is not anyone's opinion when it's simply quoiting Word with context proved to say so. And the word of God informs us about what is required to be saved, stating those who do not follow it through are not saved. And those not saved are lost.

The bible says if people do not accept certain things and reject obedience to certain directives, they're lost. The word is not a game from God in which are statements far too vague to really know. (Maybe that's why you write vaguely.) The Word is not something that does not mean what it says. A child can understand the issues one must believe in the heart to be saved. We're not all lost and in the dark. The word sheds great light to a our paths. But when we nullify the word to not meaning what it says, because no one can really know the truth, then those furthest away from what the bible claims, who actually deny what the bible flatly states, can be saved, and those who stand on what the word says without a self exalting note in their hearts are lost as lost can be. This is truly when men call good evil and call evil good. This is a prime example.

But none of this will mean anything to a blinded mind, because words lose all meaning.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Please elaborate on this:

Whose sins are covered?

1Pe 4:8 KJV And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

Are the sins of the person who does the act of charity covered by his own acts of charity, or the sins of the people are covered to whom the act was done?

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[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mfblume

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Just quoting scripture is not enough.

[mfblume]

The wonder of grace.

God actually gave me His personal righteousness. As soon as I obeyed Acts 2:38 by faith in my heart that I died with Christ, and my old man died and the body of sins was destroyed in my life, He granted me His righteousness, and I was therefore as righteous as He is. It is HIS own righteousness He gave me. And that was before I could do one righteous thing.

Rom 5:19 KJV For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Co 1:30 KJV But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

2Co 5:21 KJV For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Mat 6:33 KJV But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Rom 10:3-4 KJV For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. (4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Php 3:9 KJV And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

When focus is on us and our good deeds, the eyes are removed from grace. The greatest miracle above all is salvation from sin by the cross. And anything that downplays that as we have seen in this thread is essentially antichrist.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's not a matter of being known by fruit. It's a matter of whether mankind is supposed to preach or not. You effectively removed the need to preach the gospel.

hmm; more like i would remove the hierarchy. There is a time and a place for preaching, just like lecturing; but these are often not the best ways to teach.

"Love is 9/10 of law and law saves no one."

I don't think Christ meant what you mean.

[shazeep]

I asked you to survey my thoughts on 1 Tm 1 and Romans 8 and the explanation of how law could save if we had no sin, but it cannot sin we have sin.

i just missed this before. I guess it is tempting to make Christ's "9/10ths of the law" of no effect, essentially, and relegate "love your neighbor" to salvation by works, and term it "bloodless salvation." But the need for Christ quickly becomes apparent in "love your neighbor, enemies," because it is impossible to do perfectly, due to selfish desires, ego, etc. And as you know, the penalty is death.

The one attempting salvation by works--a codependent, in psychological terms--cannot understand this. But a child can, or at least they could if you caught them wishing someone dead for some slight, and used that as a mirror. Of course we live in a death cult, so conversations about death are discouraged, and death becomes something mystical in itself, and we go to great lengths to avoid death, and protect from death.

As for 1Tim1, it discusses a couple of subjects, but i note that in the main subject (which might be characterized as a discussion against Christian lawyers convincing new believers that Acts 2:38 will save them, and that Christ didn't really mean for us to follow the Golden Rule, as that is a law), verse 5 culminates in

5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

but that is my take on it, and i would say let the Spirit be your guide. Romans 8 gives us the reasoning for why the Good Samaritan is accepted, because he has the spirit of Christ. And you might contrast this

"...if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory."

with our quite accepted "pursuit of happiness" and this

“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

with current-day OPs debating how many and what caliber of guns they should be buying. Suffering in OP is inflicted, much more than expected.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

bump

ok these are just too dense for me to give a reply to, sorry. Good deeds done from an impure heart, expecting reward, will not save you. And, faith without works is dead. Perhaps coming from a codependent family, with it's intrinsic deal-making from birth, has helped me to see this, but really if you do good deeds in secret to those who could not possibly be of any advantage to you in the future, you have grasped 90% of the point imo.

It is considered low-class to take open advantage of people to us now; but that is a way of life, still, for lots of people.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The issue here is that you feel anyone who claims people are lost is a hypocrite, because you think that automatically means they're exalting themselves, and they are gloating and thinking "Nyah nyah, you're lost. I'm not. Nyah nyah."

Meanwhile that's nonsense. There is such a thing as objectively stating what the bible says about who is lost, and that is not anyone's opinion when it's simply quoiting Word with context proved to say so. And the word of God informs us about what is required to be saved, stating those who do not follow it through are not saved. And those not saved are lost.

The bible says if people do not accept certain things and reject obedience to certain directives, they're lost. The word is not a game from God in which are statements far too vague to really know. (Maybe that's why you write vaguely.) The Word is not something that does not mean what it says. A child can understand the issues one must believe in the heart to be saved. We're not all lost and in the dark. The word sheds great light to a our paths. But when we nullify the word to not meaning what it says, because no one can really know the truth, then those furthest away from what the bible claims, who actually deny what the bible flatly states, can be saved, and those who stand on what the word says without a self exalting note in their hearts are lost as lost can be. This is truly when men call good evil and call evil good. This is a prime example.

But none of this will mean anything to a blinded mind, because words lose all meaning.

Amen. I persist here because you are lost, Mike, and will die in your sins if you don't change your mind. And i got Scripture to back this up.