Jesus Said To "Watch"---Watch for What?

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Reading Mark 13 the other day, Jesus told us to "keep watch" because we do not know when the owner of the house will come back. He says "if he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping." Then he says, "what I say to you I say to everyone, 'Watch!'"

What do you think Jesus is admonishing us to watch for---what would constitute someone sleeping? I'm interested in hearing your opinions.

The answer is found in the preceding verses, and this was spoken to those of that generation, not to people some 2000 years in the future.

The prophets spoke of a future kingdom of blessing, and a final judgement on the nation of Israel. Peter quotes one of these prophecies when he quotes from Joel in Acts 2. Both the final judgement and the beginning of the eternal kingdom of God would come upon that generation. The pouring out of the spirit in Acts 2, was the beginning of the eternal kingdom of God, in which God would pour his spirit upon all mankind. This is on going, till the end of time, when ever that might be.

The final judgement would come upon that generation. Jesus warned his disciple to watch for the signs of the final judgement, that they would not end up being part of that judgement, and flee Jerusalem and be saved. Which is just what they did.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

The answer...

would you expound upon your interpretation of 26“At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. I'm really more interested in trying to get the preterist interpretation of "people will see" here, than in trying to get a better interpretation of v 27, but i include that to ask if you believe that this is...what Mike is saying, a different Second Coming, or what? The commentaries even vary here. Ty.

iow why do we have eyewitnesses of Christ's going, but not His return?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

The answer is found in the preceding verses, and this was spoken to those of that generation, not to people some 2000 years in the future.

The prophets spoke of a future kingdom of blessing, and a final judgement on the nation of Israel. Peter quotes one of these prophecies when he quotes from Joel in Acts 2. Both the final judgement and the beginning of the eternal kingdom of God would come upon that generation. The pouring out of the spirit in Acts 2, was the beginning of the eternal kingdom of God, in which God would pour his spirit upon all mankind. This is on going, till the end of time, when ever that might be.

The final judgement would come upon that generation. Jesus warned his disciple to watch for the signs of the final judgement, that they would not end up being part of that judgement, and flee Jerusalem and be saved. Which is just what they did.

So there's no final judgment coming upon us. Yay!

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

This is on going, till the end of time, when ever that might be.

i don't like how this ignores 'you will see,' but it agrees with my grasp of understand I AM.

[shazeep]

stumbled upon a pretty good synopsis of the 4 views; i guess i'm some kind of idealist
written by a futurist tho

http://www.npa519.com/web/fourviews.htm

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

stumbled upon a pretty good synopsis of the 4 views; i guess i'm some kind of idealist
written by a futurist tho

http://www.npa519.com/web/fourviews.htm

I see idealism as a secondary derived thought while it is primarily fulfilled in the first century. It's the change of covenants.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

unless Jesus is talking about the generation of the church. Psalm 22:30

But the generation included temple destruction, making the whole point moot if it is every ongoing so long as there is a church.

[shazeep]

there is an aspect of the Church that was, and is, and will be, reflected in verses like Now I say that as long as the heir is a child, he differs in no way from a slave, though he is the owner of everything. But ya it is kind of hard to separate out the history from the prophecy in that passage, huh?

Originally Posted by Esaias

So there's no final judgment coming upon us. Yay!

oh, c'mon, you know that is not what prets are saying. Consider this; believers were looking for an impending physical Armageddon in like 34AD. Selling their houses off and saying goodbye to loved ones, the whole bit. The laity has largely been persuaded to look for some future cataclysm as well (and tellingly imo, this is also the prevailing opinion of the world).

And it is pointless to argue against it, because anyone can read The Rev for an account; but if you consider it spiritually, the chances of Armageddon end for you when you die, the same as it did for those who were also in these last days when Christ walked the earth. So then, did they escape Armageddon, as it appears that you and i will?

Or did they--and we--shy away from Armageddon, not willing to wield our sword? How might a Martyr's answer differ from ours? Can you find a concept in the description of Armageddon that does not describe the trajectory of a Martyr? Which is not to say that some climactic final battle might not be fought with actual swords or whatever someday--but that that might not be the point! For whatever reason i cannot help but see a reflection in satan presented in a red pointy suit with horns or whatever complete anathema to the Biblical description most beautiful.

And it is the same imo with "Final Judgement." Please explain to me how the Final Judgement, presented as another "impending" thing to fear, should alter my walk, even a little? If i already grasp the fear of God, is the FJ supposed to be some extra layer of fear or something? I only have until the day i die to pay my respects to any FJ, is that not correct? So we have a passage that might be taken for comfort--"all evildoers will be judged for the evil they have done to you, if you fear God and do not practice vengeance," and instead it becomes...well, satan in a pointy red suit, as evidenced by the way your post of it is meant to be read! Which i don't mean is incorrect, but is a characterization, "prets are trying to excuse one from..." from what? The FJ of sinners, which they were already excused from?

Use the FJ as succor for those contemplating vengeance imo, not as a chimera.

[shazeep]

Christ did not seem worried about any FJ when He attacked merchants with whips
and we note that He didn't say any prayers to God to remove them either; which might sound trite, but Christ could as easily have manifested some miracle, a pack of crows attacking the merchants or something, so this bears reflection imo.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by shazeep

would you expound upon your interpretation of 26“At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. I'm really more interested in trying to get the preterist interpretation of "people will see" here, than in trying to get a better interpretation of v 27, but i include that to ask if you believe that this is...what Mike is saying, a different Second Coming, or what? The commentaries even vary here. Ty.

iow why do we have eyewitnesses of Christ's going, but not His return?

Well this is probably the point of biggest difference between me and many in eschatology belief. But I will try to explain my understanding.
First let me state I do not believe in a physical bodily resurrection. Secondly the words "see the son of man coming in clouds" is a apocalyptic phrase found in the OT, which does not mean anyone actually saw God in the clouds.
What many don't seem to grasp is that while the disciple saw Christ rise, the point that seems to be missed is "he was take up and a cloud received him" the "return in like manner" must point to "clouds" not a physical return. As Rev. 1:7 states, "he cometh with clouds" resorting back to the meaning of OT times when God came in clouds. No one literally saw God, but we know by looking back that the fulfillment of the prophecy was fulfilled when the nation God used to judge Israel came and took them into captivity.

In other words those that pierced him saw that day, the nations of the world wailed because of that day.

At least that is how I understand it.