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Originally Posted by shazeep
You don't want to see anyone lost. But it's not attacking people to let them know they are lost when they truly are.
Isn't it? I come here day after day to tell you that you are lost, and do you not feel attacked?
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I just said you repeatedly attack me as a person, rather than deal with the overall issue of BELIEF. Try as I might, you cannot be led to deal with BELIEF rather than personal attacks.
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Why do you imagine that anyone else would feel differently?
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I am dealing with beliefs. I said it a dozen times in the threads that BELIEF is the issue to deal with, but you call that lying distractions.
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Who are the people that do works in Christ's Name, and yet will hear I never knew you, and what might you tell them that they did not already imagine they understood? Why did Paul go on for an entire chapter about avoiding the doctrines and churches of his day? What was really sufficient for them?
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I already showed how the people doing works in Christ's name are people who did not apply the work of the death of Christ to their lives to point to his righteousness as their ticket to the kingdom, rather than gifts of the Spirit.
And Paul spoke nothing about avoiding doctrines in churches of his day. IN fact, on the contrary, he laid out doctrine so detailingly that he wrote several chapters of the need for the death of CHrist for us to be baptized into it, and thereby, form that standpoint, come to God for Him to empower us by His resident Spirit in us for ability to serve God. Paul insisted DOCTRINE SAVES both ourselves and those who hear us if they obey it from the heart. He said Timothy knew his doctrine and he told Timothy to believe no other doctrine or gospel, and to count it as hellish if Paul did not already preach and teach it to him as well as the Galatians as we read in
Gal 1. He stressed doctrine as means of salvation, means of rebuke and exhortation, means of saving others, and JOhn joined him saying those who don't hold this doctrine are not to be given the right hand of fellowship. Doctrine was highly appreciated by Paul and the other apostles.
doctrine was a subject of concern in the New Testament Church.
Matthew 7:28-29 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
The first two references to doctrine in the New Testament show Jesus having doctrine that He preached, and His warning against the doctrine of the Pharisees. Although Jesus gave warning to people about doctrine, He had His own doctrine. Doctrine was enough of an issue and concern for the Lord to promote what would obviously be considered true doctrine versus the false doctrine of the Pharisees.
Matthew 22:33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
Mark 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.
Mark 1:27 And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.
Mark 4:2-3 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine, Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
Well, the list goes in just such references to the doctrine that Jesus preached.
When we move into the Book of Acts, we see the first reference to Doctrine here:
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Here we read that the Apostles had a doctrine. And the three thousand people who were baptized on the day of Pentecost adhered to and continued stedfastly in the Apostles' doctrine. They "persevered," as Darby's translation put it, "in the teaching of the Apostles."
Acts 2:42 [DARBY] And they persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers.
You see, "doctrine" simply is "teaching." So what people are saying when they say you should avoid any church that preaches doctrine and makes doctrine a matter of concern, is that you should not attend any church that makes teaching a concern. Shocking as it sounds, that is what these people are trying to tell others.
Teaching is a very important aspect of the ministry of the Church. In fact, it is one of the main ministries of the Church. Paul noted in
Ephesians 4 that there are some called to be prophets, some Apostles, some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers. So the modern idea is actually doing away with one of the five main ministries of the Church, -- teachers!
Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
There is sound doctrine
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2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
1Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Notice the last verse listed. If we disregard doctrine, then we disregard the opportunity to convince the gainsayers or opposers of the Church and win them to the Lord.
Paul taught Timothy to ensure himself that he taught no other doctrine than what Timothy received from the Apostles.
1Timothy 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1Timothy 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
Contrary to modern opinion, Paul told Timothy to be very much concerned over doctrine.
1Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
In fact, true doctrine saves a person! To avoid people who have anything to do with doctrine is to avoid people who very well might be the ones who teach truths that are necessary for salvation. And to disregard doctrine altogether, as modernists are trying to do in all our churches, is therefore to disregard the need for salvation! Paul connected doctrine with salvation.
Paul did not speak against people who promoted doctrine, but rather commended the ones who promoted the true doctrine of the Apostles.
1Timothy 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
Paul stressed doctrine to such a degree that he urged Pastor Timothy to keep in mind that those who did not believe the good doctrine of godliness ought to be considered as proud and knowing nothing.
1Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Paul put his doctrine right up in the front of what made him a true preacher.
2 Timothy 3:10-11 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
What will we talk about if there is no doctrine to teach? Perhaps Paul gives us a clue:
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
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