Are all Catholics lost?

[shazeep]

Why do you think I stressed that over and over?

sorry, i ignored those because they are prevarications. It would be a simple matter for you to issue a simple statement to the effect "I don't know if all Catholics are lost or not," rather than your conditional gobbledy-gook about doctrine and belief, which are both from satan imo.

You expect me to believe what you said here, when you said, " i don't teach others to discount a verbal acceptance of the cross and embrace the Golden Rule, i merely suggest that Christ may have," when you refuse to believe what I said in my responses as quoted above?

no, i do not expect you to believe anything i have said, and everything i have said is irrelevant to the issue, which is that you sin when you judge others you do not know, and you must repent.

Why did you not vote on the poll I listed?

for the reason i stated in like post 3, that being that the poll is a distortion, and invalid. I offered the opp to restate the responses neutrally (and suggested that this would never happen ) and i would participate, well knowing that you could not do this.

You apply all these caveats for yourself...

i have stated that i am a hypocrite, and sincerely apologized more than once for crossing the line, when in fact all of that is irrelevant to the matter that is still at hand, and remains at hand whether every single Muslim and Catholic goes to hell or not.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Why do you think I stressed that over and over?

sorry, i ignored those because they are prevarications.

Prevarications?

Lies?

I repeated it over and over again because IT IS MY ACTUAL INTENTIONS. Throughout the whole thread I emphasized this. But they are lies to you.

See? I believe your explanation of your intentions but you deny mine.

It would be a simple matter for you to issue a simple statement to the effect "I don't know if all Catholics are lost or not," rather than your conditional gobbledy-gook about doctrine and belief, which are both from satan imo.

There you go again.

You expect me to believe what you said here, when you said, " i don't teach others to discount a verbal acceptance of the cross and embrace the Golden Rule, i merely suggest that Christ may have," when you refuse to believe what I said in my responses as quoted above?

no, i do not expect you to believe anything i have said, and everything i have said is irrelevant to the issue, which is that you sin when you judge others you do not know, and you must repent.

I did not judge, the bible did.

I explain catholic DOGMA is what is the problem, and those who adhere it to are in trouble. I repeat over and over again, it's not about PEOPLE but DOCTRINE. And you say that is lying.

Why did you not vote on the poll I listed?

for the reason i stated in like post 3,

You said the question was fine but post number 1 was the problem. So when I asked you to answer the question without post number 1's inflection, you THEN CHANGED and said the question is biased. YOU CHANGED your stance.

But you miss my point. What you did in my poll is not allowed by me in your poll.

that being that the poll is a distortion, and invalid. I offered the opp to restate the responses neutrally (and suggested that this would never happen ) and i would participate, well knowing that you could not do this.

You apply all these caveats for yourself...

i have stated that i am a hypocrite, and sincerely apologized more than once for crossing the line, when in fact all of that is irrelevant to the matter that is still at hand, and remains at hand whether every single Muslim and Catholic goes to hell or not.

I said doctrine is the issue. And you said that is not YOUR issue. You said people can call themselves catholic i and not heed the doctrines. I said that is not what I was basing anything on, but you continued to act as though it was!

And you always make it personal until you slam me to the dirt personally, and apologize, and then do it again. Oh I forgive you, and will forgive you if you do it 486 more times , since you did it at least three times now. But YOU go that route eventually and I have not done anything similar to you.

[shazeep]

I did not judge, the bible did.

fine, then just explain where in this passage 'the Bible did;'
You think you can judge, but you cannot!


it's not about PEOPLE but DOCTRINE

i would say the opposite, as we have already explored.

You said the question was fine but post number 1 was the problem. So when I asked you to answer the question without post number 1's inflection, you THEN CHANGED and said the question is biased. YOU CHANGED your stance.

you are being completely ridiculous now, Mr B, the entire poll, from the thread title to the poll questions, all are biased, and post #1 just sums it up, and we have already gone over how, going as far as to posit neutral questions.

But you miss my point. What you did in my poll is not allowed by me in your poll.


i have no idea what you are trying to say, and i sincerely doubt that it matters a whit, but if you will clarify this, in a post all by itself, with that passage there in italics at the top, i will attempt to reply.

I said doctrine is the issue. And you said that is not YOUR issue. You said people can call themselves catholic i and not heed the doctrines. I said that is not what I was basing anything on, but you continued to act as though it was!

already covered, the pope is saved for all you know.

And you always make it personal until you slam me to the dirt personally, and apologize, and then do it again. Oh I forgive you, and will forgive you if you do it 486 more times , since you did it at least three times now. But YOU go that route eventually and I have not done anything similar to you.

you do not know what you have done, wadr, and i have offended you more than 3 times in the last...year, surely. I was trying anything. And forgiving me now is not the same as forgiving me then would have been, but again, all of this is a cloud of irrelevance. gotta run.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

fine, then just explain where in this passage 'the Bible did;'

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Phil 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

2 John 1:2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

----

1 cor 15:15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

in conjunction with:

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

----

[shazeep]

that's fine, that's true, and all that. but perhaps the application is suspect, when considered in light of other Scripture

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Everybody likes to think THEIR version of faith is God's version. Both the meanies, and the sweeties. And God will win in the end, thankfully, and all of us will be judged by him, not each other. Both the meanies, and the sweeties, and the wanna be in betweenies.

I like that! But what if Christ already came and judged between the meanies and sweeties and now requires everyone to just be sweeties?

There is a underlining thread throughout history portrayed on scripture even, that pertains the how we are to treat our fellow man. That thread is found as the basis of what is contained in the law. "Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself" Quote from the mouth of Christ himself.

There was a reason Christ came at the appointed time he did. I believe it has to do with human sacrifices. God gave the sacrificial system to the Jews, as a diversion to keep them from offering their children as was the trend with other nations at that time.
Though Christ sacrifice should have ended human sacrifice for all time. Religion still has found a way to continue to offer human sacrifice in a bloodless way. They call it salvation. The Gospel. But the whole is that Christ brought in the kingdom of God. That kingdom was to be based on Love your neighbor and love God.
One should note, he does not specify whose God or what God, just Love God first, and love your neighbor as yourself. So religion says I will love my neighbor if they love MY God.

The true question should not be are all Catholics and Muslims lost? But are all Pentecostals, Baptist, Methodist, 7th day Adventist...Catholics, pagans, Hindus etc. lost?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

[shazeep]

nice--you might get some blowback at "MY God," but i understand you to mean "if they love God the way I have been taught." i don't think you are suggesting polytheism there.

Originally Posted by mfblume

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

----

and what have ye received? Ye, specifically? I think what ye has received should be contrasted with what they, who did not have a NT, had received, as they had no Acts 2:38 to refer to then. What Gospel did they receive?

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by shazeep

nice--you might get some blowback at "MY God," but i understand you to mean "if they love God the way I have been taught." i don't think you are suggesting polytheism there.
and what have ye received? Ye, specifically? I think what ye has received should be contrasted with what they, who did not have a NT, had received, as they had no Acts 2:38 to refer to then. What Gospel did they receive?

That is another point, the "Gospel" as defined by Christ himself, was "the good news that the kingdom of God had come". Not some list of qualifications one need obey to be saved. Religion has gotten stuck on "baptism for the remission of sin" and have never gone far enough back to understand just what baptism meant to the Jew in the first place. Baptism was always symbolic of washing sin, to the Jew. It was also and more importantly the joining of a certain belief system within Judaism. Hence the gospel was not "repent, get baptized to be saved". The gospel was the kingdom of God has come.
Peter only declared what John declared before him, with one difference. John declared the kingdom was coming, repent. Peter declared the kingdom has come repent.
One last caveat, from the time of the giving of the law, baptism never cleaned one of sin, the blood of the lamb cleaned one from sin. Baptism was the cleansing of the flesh which symbolized cleansing from sin, just as was the right of circumcision. Neither of which saved one.

[shazeep]

nice imo

John declared the kingdom was coming, repent. Peter declared the kingdom has come repent.

very nice

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I like that! But what if Christ already came and judged between the meanies and sweeties and now requires everyone to just be sweeties?

Can't we all just be Sweeties?