Church Growth - Stagnation

[houston]

Originally Posted by Esaias

"We believe that God is the Creator and Ruler of the Universe.

He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God."

From http://www.apexcommunity.org/what-we-believe/

I thought you were a member of an apostolic house church?

He always stated that the house church is trinitarian.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

"We believe that God is the Creator and Ruler of the Universe.

He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God."

From http://www.apexcommunity.org/what-we-believe/

I thought you were a member of an apostolic house church?

I posted information on Apex because it is a local example of successful decentralization and growth through smaller networked gatherings (in this case house churches). I fellowship with them quite a bit, but I wouldn't count myself a "member". Senior Pastor Rob Turner is an excellent expository preacher. Calvinst as the day is long, so we don't always agree, but a great person. I assured him that I firmly believed that God granted him the free will to be a Calvinist if he wanted to be. LOL!

One house church I like to attend is Apostolic. Although they have a vision for a house church network, it has yet to truly materialize in the manner that we see with Apex. At one time, we had 7 house churches baptizing in Jesus name in our area. But after that growth they dissolved for various reasons relating to control and attitudes. A lot of Apostolics in house churches have been hurt and have some bitterness and control issues to work through. This hinders trust, openness, and growth. I do like this group's statement of faith though, and I hold it as my own.

If we could only build a network of Apostolics with the attitude more like that found at Apex, I think it would be awesome. I'll be honest. If I didn't feel so unworthy and insecure, and I had the peace of God's call to do it, I'd try to start a network like Apex.... only it would be Apostolic in doctrine.

But for the sake of this conversation, I felt that Apex was the best local example of growth through decentralization that I'm familiar with.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Don't pray for something God has already done and don't pray for God to do something that He has commanded YOU to do.

We become stagnant because we sit and wait for God to do all the work and we think that our job is just to show up.

I think that as long as there is sickness, disease and people that needs to be delivered, we have plenty to do.

Our job is to do things that no one else can do.THAT is Apostolic Identity and THAT is what will draw others.

Good stuff.

[Aquila]

Senior Pastor Rob Turner (of Apex) is rather open to the ideas of others, he doesn't criticize. This attitude is really prevalent in their network. It easy to fellowship and share an Apostolic perspective with people in these house churches. Here Pastor Turner is having a little fun in a gathering at the main campus:

[Esaias]

Main campus?

Is this a large church with a lot of house church/cell church "daughter works"?

I thought you had posted a statement of beliefs of your church, and I thought it was Oneness Pentecostal?

[Esaias]

Aquila, you posted this:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here is ours:

(Section 4)
H. Every member of the Apostolic Fellowship has the right to disagree with portions of this constitution and to search the scriptures for themselves, as did the noble Bereans (Acts 17:11), to see if these things are so. So long as the 5 doctrinal foundation points of H (Acts 2:38 salvation), I (Priesthood of All Believers), J (Definition of "Church"), K (Oneness of God), and Q (Issue of tithing) are held to, members of the Apostolic Fellowship are free to question, discuss, debate, or disagree with any other point in a spirit of love (John 13:35). If there are serious differences in these minor points, membership in the network of the Apostolic Fellowship shall be left up to the discretion of the individual rather than the network. All believers shall be accepted by the Apostolic Fellowship on the basis of life, integrity, and doctrine (points H, I, J, K, and Q) and no barriers will be raised to divide such individuals due to points of other minor contention. (See Section 4, Article B)

.............................

Section 7


Doctrinal Foundation



The Apostolic Fellowship accepts the Bible as the

complete and inspired Word of God, the only rule of Faith, the perfect creed

and heaven-sent road map from earth to glory.



The following is not an effort to prove any doctrine to be

scripturally correct. It is merely a setting forth of certain doctrinal tenets

commonly accepted by the members of the Apostolic Fellowship, which

distinguishes us from other religious bodies.



A.The Infallible Word. The Bible is God’s Word, and He is

the author of this message to mankind. (2 Timothy 3:16)



B.Men are Sinners. Through one single act of disobedience,

our first parents fell and sin entered into the human family. All have sinned

and are in need of the salvation provided only through Jesus Christ. (Romans

5:19)



C.The Blood of the Cross. The only way that sin can be

atoned for is by the shedding of the blood of a perfect sacrifice. Jesus was

that sacrifice. (Hebrews 9:22; 1 Peter 1:19, 20)



D.Repentance. Repentance is essential to salvation.

Repentance is shown forth by a turning from the ways of the world, self, and

devil. It is a turning to what pleases God. If there is no discernible

lifestyle change, it is not likely that repentance has taken place. (2 Peter 3:9)



E.Water Baptism. Water baptism actually buries us with Jesus

Christ. (Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:12) It is done by immersion in the name of

Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:38; 1 Corinthians 1:13)



F.Holy Spirit Baptism. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is the

birth of the Spirit in the life of a believer. The promise of the Spirit is for

all. (Acts 2:38, 39)



G.Tongues. The early church Christians could tell right away

whether or not someone had received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:33;

8:15, 16; 10:45, 46; 19:1-6) Tongues were the initial evidence of receiving the

Holy Spirit.



H.Salvation. Salvation is best summed up by Acts 2:38.

"Peter replied, ‘Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of

Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of

the Holy Spirit.’"



I.Priesthood of All Believers. All believers have direct

access to God through Jesus Christ. Moreover, all believers can and should hear

directly from God regarding His will for their lives. (Hebrews 10:19, 20; Romans

12:2)



J.Church. The church is the body of believers of which

Christ is the head. The church is not a building, nor is it a business. It is a

living Spiritual organism where all believers are members in particular and

have been placed in the body where it has pleased God. All are needed, all are

valuable, and all are gifted. (Ephesians 1:22, 23)



K.Godhead. There is only one God. He is not a being made up

of three persons, but a single, indivisible Spirit.


L.Name of Jesus. The name of Jesus (or the equivalent of the

same appropriately rendered in another language) is the only name given under

heaven whereby we must be saved. It is the name we call on in prayer, and the

name we are baptized into. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. The only

way to be saved is through Jesus Christ. (Acts 4:12; John 14:6; 15:16)



M.Second Coming of Jesus. Jesus Christ ascended to heaven a

few days after his resurrection. He went away to prepare a place for those who

love and obey him, and will return to gather them unto himself. (John 14:3; 1

Thessalonians 4:16, 17)



N.Judgment. There is coming a day of judgment in which every

person will be judged according to the deeds done in his life. This means that

there will be a literal resurrection of the dead.



O.Family. We believe that the family is God’s plan for

nurturing, training, and raising children. To this end, we believe that we must

strengthen and equip the family to be the main center of Christian education

and faith development. (Deuteronomy 6:1-7) We define marriage as the union

between one man and one woman. The marriage covenant is the foundation of the

family, and the family is fundamental in the maintenance of a stable, healthy

and prosperous social order. We recognize that parents have the fundamental

right and responsibility to nurture, educate, and discipline their children.



P.Body Life. We believe that a healthy church model is found

in Acts 2:37-47. If we continue steadfastly in the Apostle’s doctrine,

fellowship, breaking of bread, and in prayers, we will do well.



Q.Tithing. We believe that the practice of tithing was an

Old Testament law which was necessary for supporting the Old Testament

priesthood. With the death of Jesus Christ on the cross as a sacrifice for our

sins, the veil in the temple was torn in two by the hand of God. This resulted

in a new covenant in which the priesthood and its financial support structure

was abolished and a new Priesthood of all Believers was established. God’s

financial plan for the church today is called "giving," not tithing.



R.Holiness. Holiness is essential to salvation. (Hebrews 12:14)

Man is made holy by the presence and power of the Holy Spirit in his life.

Holy, consecrated, prayerful living should characterize the life and walk of

every born-again saint of God. Therefore, God requires that one must forsake

the ways of the wicked (2 Corinthians 6:17) and cleanse oneself from filthiness

of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Corinthians

7:1) We admonish our fellowship to embace the following standards of holiness: Simplicity (I John 2:6), Peace (Matthew 5:39, 44), Integrity (Proverbs 6:16,19), Community (Hebrews 10:25), Equality (Galatians 3:28), Stewardship (Genesis 2:15).



S.Modesty. We hold to biblical standards of modesty, as interpreted by each head of household for his/her own family, including a distinction between male and female. (Deuteronomy 22:5)

Our foundational uncompromised positions are found in bold (H, I, J, K, and Q). Individual house churches, elders, and members are free to have individual convictions, understandings, or interpretations of the articles not in bold.

Yet, the APEX Statement of Belief, on baptism, never even references Acts 2:38 and explicitly denies baptism is necessary, essential, or any part of salvation.

Also, your church's doctrine of the Godhead is explicitly contrary to APEX's? How does a church maintain membership in a network that explicitly contradicts that church's doctrines of God, baptism, and regeneration?

I do not see how your church's statement of beliefs is compatible with APEX's?

And, that last statement about individual house churches having leeway on "nonessentials" implies this posted statement of beliefs is the statement of a network or fellowship of churches. As if you were speaking of an APOSTOLIC network or fellowship???

Please explain?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Senior Pastor Rob Turner (of Apex) is rather open to the ideas of others, he doesn't criticize. This attitude is really prevalent in their network. It easy to fellowship and share an Apostolic perspective with people in these house churches. Here Pastor Turner is having a little fun in a gathering at the main campus:

Here's an example of Tuner sharing who Jesus is (his understanding of course):

Rob Turner, eh?

"Apex Family,

On Sunday, November 20 we held a meeting with the Elders and Turners to provide an opportunity for our Apex family to have a time of prayer, care, and healing. Back in July we made the announcement that Rob Turner, our Teaching Lead Pastor and Region 1 Elder, was immediately removed from his ministry and elder responsibilities due to his confession of a long-standing sexual sin (to read more about that announcement from July, click here). "

From http://www.apexcommunity.org/night-w...rs-and-turners

How'd you miss that one, Aquila?

[Esaias]

Aquila... ??? This happened back in July of last year, and Apex notified all their house churches, and distributed a FAQ, a "House Church Discussion Guide (which is meant to help our shepherds share this news in their house churches), and the Missionary Reflection Guide (which is meant to help communicate the news to our missionaries)."

From http://www.apexcommunity.org/importantannouncement

But you just posted as if Mr Turner was still some kind of leader in your church network?

I'm confused... you had posted a statement of faith of a house church network that appeared to be Oneness Pentecostal, but now you say you are a member of a large trinitarian evangelical/Baptistic house church network headed by Rob Turner... but those people say they sat him down back in July for "long standing sexual sin"???

You been out of town for awhile?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I posted information on Apex because it is a local example of successful decentralization and growth through smaller networked gatherings (in this case house churches). I fellowship with them quite a bit, but I wouldn't count myself a "member". Senior Pastor Rob Turner is an excellent expository preacher. Calvinst as the day is long, so we don't always agree, but a great person. I assured him that I firmly believed that God granted him the free will to be a Calvinist if he wanted to be. LOL!

One house church I like to attend is Apostolic. Although they have a vision for a house church network, it has yet to truly materialize in the manner that we see with Apex. At one time, we had 7 house churches baptizing in Jesus name in our area. But after that growth they dissolved for various reasons relating to control and attitudes. A lot of Apostolics in house churches have been hurt and have some bitterness and control issues to work through. This hinders trust, openness, and growth. I do like this group's statement of faith though, and I hold it as my own.

If we could only build a network of Apostolics with the attitude more like that found at Apex, I think it would be awesome. I'll be honest. If I didn't feel so unworthy and insecure, and I had the peace of God's call to do it, I'd try to start a network like Apex.... only it would be Apostolic in doctrine.

But for the sake of this conversation, I felt that Apex was the best local example of growth through decentralization that I'm familiar with.

Somehow I missed this post.

So you fellowship with Apex, apparently were unaware Mr Turner was defrocked, and consider another house church's statement of faith as your own.

Are you a member of that apostolic house church?

And, for the record, it really seemed like you were saying YOUR network was Apex. Sorry if I misunderstood.

[houston]

I am also confizzled