Church Growth - Stagnation

[CC1]

This thread is not a discussion about small churches vs mega churches or house church. It is a discussion of what should be expected of a church regarding normal growth.

Church growth is affected by many factors. Churches in small communities with declining populations who maintain the number of church members may in fact be "growing" as their percentage of a declining area population increases even though their number may remain constant.

I strongly believe that the population area around a church is also something to measure a church's proper growth by. That is one of the things that always made the Pentecostals of Alexandria such an amazing story within "mega" UPC churches. When I was young they were running over 1,000 people each Sunday in a town that had less than 50,000 people. So percentage wise they were reaching more of their community than any other UPC mega church at the time.

If you pastor a church of 50 in a community of 5000 people if you could reach 5% of that population and grow to 250 that would be a great success in my eyes although, of course, the ultiimate goal is to reach many more of that population.

Likewise if you pastor a church of 50 in a town of 50,000 people and you are not growing then, in my opinion, something is wrong. Obvioiusly many factors go into a church growing. Sometimes pastors inherit dysfunctional churches that might take a few years to bring to a place where outreach and growth is possible. However that should happen.

What made me decide to start this thread is that I was looking at a Pentecostal church website. The church has been there for many decades in a Southern town with a population of around 200,000 people. I know nothing about the church or the pastors who have pastored it. However in reading the church history they mentioned that when the current pastor came about 20 years ago the church doubled from 60 to 120 members in two years. Then it proceeded to say that currently the church runs 100-120 members. I thought to myself that it seems incredible this church in a decent sized city would see virtually no growth in 20 years. It made me wonder how that pastor, church, and other pentecostals look at church growth and how they measure their success in carrying out the great commission.

[Amanah]

I have a few thoughts that are related to this subject, probably disjointed thoughts.

* one plants, one waters, but God gives the increase, so as long as we are diligent with outreach, the increase is in God's hands.

* God is not going to increase us more then we can successfully disciple.

* I worry that the churches have grown more worldly and are not investing in prayer and fasting as much as they used to and are more distracted with worldly entertainment, possibly making us less effective then we could be

* I wonder that we seem to have a lot more water baptisms, then Holy Ghost baptisms, but thought maybe that is because lots of people are getting the Holy Ghost before they step foot into the church.

[Esaias]

What does the Bible say?

[houston]

Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

[aegsm76]

I hesitate to equate church growth with a "successful" church.
To me it is somewhat equivalent to saying that someone who is financially successful is "blessed".
With that said, every church that I have attended has experienced growth.
And growth that outpaced the surrounding communities growth or decline.
One possibility that might have been left out of your website example is a church split.
I have seen that occur a few times and churches are reluctant to mention that in their history.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I have a few thoughts that are related to this subject, probably disjointed thoughts.

* one plants, one waters, but God gives the increase, so as long as we are diligent with outreach, the increase is in God's hands.

* God is not going to increase us more then we can successfully disciple.

* I worry that the churches have grown more worldly and are not investing in prayer and fasting as much as they used to and are more distracted with worldly entertainment, possibly making us less effective then we could be

* I wonder that we seem to have a lot more water baptisms, then Holy Ghost baptisms, but thought maybe that is because lots of people are getting the Holy Ghost before they step foot into the church.

Since it is God's will that everybody come into relationship with him and be saved my thought is that there must not be proper planting and watering going on if God gives no increase in 20 years to a small church in a populous area. You would think at some point some introspection and examination would take place as to why there is no increase from whatever planting and watering are going on. I am not just picking on that one church but saying that my anecdotal observation is that there are many churches in populous areas with no growth that don't seem to be very concerned about their lack of success in carrying out the great commission.

[Aquila]

I believe that if a church becomes stagnant, they've become too self focused. What are they doing in their community to serve society? Are they loving people without asking if those people are worthy or not? Are they speaking out in defense of the oppressed and against the injustices that are truly harming their communities?

Love, service, and advocacy.

Does the church provide a clothing closet, soup kitchen, shelter, or food-bank? Is it partnered with other local bodies to help the community? Is it "in the loop"? Do they have an active team of volunteers with the gift of helps volunteering to serve at local charities in the name of the church they attend? Are they getting their hands dirty and just helping people and loving people?

I can only speak from my experience. The churches I've attended that became stagnant became stagnant after becoming overly legalistic. The demands were just too steep for the average person walking the streets who just wants to know Jesus. They lacked a certain "grace" that attracted the sinner and the broken, bruised, and addicted. They shifted from being a hospital for the spiritually sick to being a private lodge with dues and secrete handshakes, expectations, and rituals. The kind of lodge that thinks you should feel lucky if you were invited.

They also lost their passion for service. The churches that I am familiar with that grew stagnant also did nothing for their local communities. And one church that did have some interest in serving their community only did so as it suited their own agenda and image. They shut down an effort to reach out to drug addicts because people were concerned with the kind of people that might begin coming to their church. They actually ruled out some neighborhoods when it came to door knocking or evangelistic efforts like invitations to dramas or holiday programs and focused on the upper middle class and suburban communities.

I don't mean to sound harsh. There were good people in those churches. There still are good people in those churches. I think that they began to really like themselves a little too much. New building, expansion, a school, buses, etc... they felt like they arrived... but they didn't realize that they were only more prepared to START their ministry.

[Aquila]

I'd advise that a church focus on two rules...

Love God.
Love others.

The rest is merely commentary. In a world where people are hungry for love and authenticity... I've never seen it fail to attract people.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe that if a church becomes stagnant, they've become too self focused. What are they doing in their community to serve society? Are they loving people without asking if those people are worthy or not? Are they speaking out in defense of the oppressed and against the injustices that are truly harming their communities?

Love, service, and advocacy.

Does the church provide a clothing closet, soup kitchen, shelter, or food-bank? Is it partnered with other local bodies to help the community? Is it "in the loop"? Do they have an active team of volunteers with the gift of helps volunteering to serve at local charities in the name of the church they attend? Are they getting their hands dirty and just helping people and loving people?

I can only speak from my experience. The churches I've attended that became stagnant became stagnant after becoming overly legalistic. The demands were just too steep for the average person walking the streets who just wants to know Jesus. They lacked a certain "grace" that attracted the sinner and the broken, bruised, and addicted. They shifted from being a hospital for the spiritually sick to being a private lodge with dues and secrete handshakes, expectations, and rituals. The kind of lodge that thinks you should feel lucky if you were invited.

They also lost their passion for service. The churches that I am familiar with that grew stagnant also did nothing for their local communities. And one church that did have some interest in serving their community only did so as it suited their own agenda and image. They shut down an effort to reach out to drug addicts because people were concerned with the kind of people that might begin coming to their church. They actually ruled out some neighborhoods when it came to door knocking or evangelistic efforts like invitations to dramas or holiday programs and focused on the upper middle class and suburban communities.

I don't mean to sound harsh. There were good people in those churches. There still are good people in those churches. I think that they began to really like themselves a little too much. New building, expansion, a school, buses, etc... they felt like they arrived... but they didn't realize that they were only more prepared to START their ministry.

Excellent post.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe that if a church becomes stagnant, they've become too self focused. What are they doing in their community to serve society? Are they loving people without asking if those people are worthy or not? Are they speaking out in defense of the oppressed and against the injustices that are truly harming their communities?

Love, service, and advocacy.

Does the church provide a clothing closet, soup kitchen, shelter, or food-bank? Is it partnered with other local bodies to help the community? Is it "in the loop"? Do they have an active team of volunteers with the gift of helps volunteering to serve at local charities in the name of the church they attend? Are they getting their hands dirty and just helping people and loving people?

I can only speak from my experience. The churches I've attended that became stagnant became stagnant after becoming overly legalistic. The demands were just too steep for the average person walking the streets who just wants to know Jesus. They lacked a certain "grace" that attracted the sinner and the broken, bruised, and addicted. They shifted from being a hospital for the spiritually sick to being a private lodge with dues and secrete handshakes, expectations, and rituals. The kind of lodge that thinks you should feel lucky if you were invited.

They also lost their passion for service. The churches that I am familiar with that grew stagnant also did nothing for their local communities. And one church that did have some interest in serving their community only did so as it suited their own agenda and image. They shut down an effort to reach out to drug addicts because people were concerned with the kind of people that might begin coming to their church. They actually ruled out some neighborhoods when it came to door knocking or evangelistic efforts like invitations to dramas or holiday programs and focused on the upper middle class and suburban communities.

I don't mean to sound harsh. There were good people in those churches. There still are good people in those churches. I think that they began to really like themselves a little too much. New building, expansion, a school, buses, etc... they felt like they arrived... but they didn't realize that they were only more prepared to START their ministry.

My experience has been the opposite.
I know of churches who have replaced the "gospel" with social services and "serving".
Then the next step is to water down the doctrine until the next generation sees no difference between us and the rest of the denominations.
I have witnessed that in my own family.