How old do you think the universe is?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jason B

Imagine, if he didnt need to.

You think we'll have to worry about mosquito bites in the new heavens and earth?

Do you believe mosquitos were actual mosquitos which drank blood? Were there maggots? Ants? Where there fish like we have today? I mean, if nothing died, then nothing could be killed? Adam must of stepped on a "creeping thing" while walking around the garden?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jason B

I disagree. Your view is wrought with textual problems.

So you say.

First, you say that only mans death didn't exist before sin, but on what basis? Not the text, because Genesis 1 puts the creation of animal and human life on the same day. Genesis 1:24-31

On the entirety of the bible. First of all, nothing states animals did not die before sin. And I believe there was a creation without any man whatsoever before Day one of Genesis.

Second, if you have animal death for thousands, millions, or billions of years, you have the problem that God said He gave EVERY beast the green herb as food on the day He created them, Genesis 1:30

The basis of my thought is that Genesis 6 days are renovation, not creation. New start. Former creation that was absent of man never was part of this new start.

Third, God looked His creation and claimed it was very good. (Gen 1:31). Your theory proposes death, carnage, catastrophe (ice age), and disease all before day 6.

Before day one! Huge difference.

Fourth, and a bigger problem, is your view limits death to mans death, whereas the scripture plainly teaches all of the creation was negatively affected by Adam's sin and the resulting curse:

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: CURSED IS THE GROUND FOR THY SAKE; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Genesis 3:17?-?18 KJV

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:12 KJV

For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are. Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay.
Romans 8:19?-?21 NLT

Not one of those verses says anything about death not existing for animals. And NLT?????
Not even a translation.

Fifth, your time frame, which has animals existing millions of years before man, when God created them all on day 6.

Not if the six days are renovation after an obliterated world beforehand.

Psalm 104:30 recounts the six days in sequence as in Genesis 1. And says the earth was RENEWED

You are making claims about my belief without even knowing the details of my belief. And what you claimed is a strawman of what I believe. It would be best to learn the details of my claim before making conclusions based upon a faulty understanding of what I believe.

Has nothing to do with "cartoony booklets"


Animals did die....after the curse.

I think you're reading into Isaiah a weird allegorical interpretation, but thats your prerogative.

Brother, there's been a LOT of study into my conclusions. The same chapter Isa 11 that mentions the wolf and lamb says that Jesus would have the seven spirits of God on Him to make Him judge righteously and not after the eyes.

Isaiah 11:3-4 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: (4) But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.


Jesus said He had that way back in the first advent.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

John 8:15-16 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. (16) And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

And all of that is in association with Christ coming as son of David in Isa 11. And the branch, stem and root figurative speech sets the pace for the speech that follows.

You really need to not give knee-jerk reactions to something you never heard before and an interpretation you should research a little more before you think you have it nailed.

[Aquila]

Biblically speaking, wasn't the only source of eternal life the Tree of Life? Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden, and a flaming angelic sword was given charge to guard the Tree of Life, lest man partake and live forever in his fallen state.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Biblically speaking, wasn't the only source of eternal life the Tree of Life? Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden, and a flaming angelic sword was given charge to guard the Tree of Life, lest man partake and live forever in his fallen state.

... but only after sin.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Do you believe mosquitos were actual mosquitos which drank blood? Were there maggots? Ants? Where there fish like we have today? I mean, if nothing died, then nothing could be killed? Adam must of stepped on a "creeping thing" while walking around the garden?

I simply believe the creation was perfect, like it will be in the new earth. The existence of insects isn't a problem. It isn't as if the fall caught God by surprise and left Him scrambling to cone up with plan B. Sin, the fall, the curse, all happened relatively quickly, some suggest as soon as day 8. While I don't have a firm opinion on when, I don't see a perfect creation, void of death and disease as too hard for God.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by mfblume

So you say.

On the entirety of the bible. First of all, nothing states animals did not die before sin. And I believe there was a creation without any man whatsoever before Day one of Genesis.

Your free to believe what you want, but have little scriptural support for your view.

Originally Posted by mfblume

The basis of my thought is that Genesis 6 days are renovation, not creation. New start. Former creation that was absent of man never was part of this new start.

Yes, I'm familiar with that view. I think its bases on conjecture and speculation. Also seems odd God would create everything except man, destroy everything, recreate everything again, by divine fiat ex nihilo, and this time add man. If the first was a trial run, the second doesnt seem much better.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Before day one! Huge difference.

There were billions of days before day one? Hmm.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jason B

I simply believe the creation was oerfect, like it will be in the new earth. The existence of insects isn't a problem. It isn't as if the fall caught God by surprise and left Him scrambling to cone up with plan B. Sin, the fall, the curse, all happened relatively quickly, some suggest as soon as day 8. While I don't have a firm opinion on when, I don't see a perfect creation, void of death and disease as too hard for God.

Definition of oerfect?

Did Jonathan Edward's use that word or term?

But anyway, what about Adam's own body? Was it like ours?

Imagine, he could fall thousands of feet and not die. Swim underwater and not even have to hold his breath.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jason B

There were billions of days before day one? Hmm.

Are you actually reading what he posted? He said that day one would be the restart. You read a book about three different views of Genesis? Seriously?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Biblically speaking, wasn't the only source of eternal life the Tree of Life? Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden, and a flaming angelic sword was given charge to guard the Tree of Life, lest man partake and live forever in his fallen state.

Exactly.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jason B

I simply believe the creation was perfect, like it will be in the new earth. The existence of insects isn't a problem. It isn't as if the fall caught God by surprise and left Him scrambling to cone up with plan B. Sin, the fall, the curse, all happened relatively quickly, some suggest as soon as day 8. While I don't have a firm opinion on when, I don't see a perfect creation, void of death and disease as too hard for God.

It's not a question of what's too hard for God. It's what God did.