Charlie Gard

[Amanah]

Erasing Our Ancestors, Aborting Our Descendants

Childless elites rule Europe in secret through unelected commissions — it sounds like some crazy futuristic novel, doesn’t it? But it’s the cold, unvarnished truth. These oligarchs loathe their subjects. They despise more than anything those who cling to one piece or another of their grandparents’ natural and supernatural pieties:

The duty of parents to educate and advocate for their children, despite the State.
The rights of voters to direct their nations’ futures.
The duty of nations to guard their own borders and sovereignty.
The right of churches to pass along their doctrine, unpoisoned by modern sexual ideology.

The suave and rootless Citizens of International Business Class have their own set of deep-seated feelings. Most of them start with scorn.
They loathe people like Charlie Gard’s parents. “Ignorant” Britons who support measures like Brexit. “Benighted” Poles who won’t legalize abortion. “Bigoted” Hungarians who won’t let “the Turk” reoccupy their country. “Racist” Americans (of every race) who voted for Donald Trump.
Charlie Gard has become a symbol, whose influence will live on. His parents are doing what’s healthy and natural. So are the voters in Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary. And yes, so were we in our last presidential election.
These elitists are desperate to keep real decisions out of the hands of voters. To concentrate power upward, in the hands of the few. To manage the media, censor Facebook, terrorize populists and patriots. And to stigmatize as “extremists” those who still think and speak as Churchill, De Gaulle, and Adenauer once did — of freedom, faith, and Western civilization.

https://stream.org/will-charlie-gard...harlie-7-14-17

an institution is not a parent

http://time.com/4851407/charlie-gard...als-catholics/

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Erasing Our Ancestors, Aborting Our Descendants

Childless elites rule Europe in secret through unelected commissions — it sounds like some crazy futuristic novel, doesn’t it? But it’s the cold, unvarnished truth. These oligarchs loathe their subjects. They despise more than anything those who cling to one piece or another of their grandparents’ natural and supernatural pieties:

The duty of parents to educate and advocate for their children, despite the State.
The rights of voters to direct their nations’ futures.
The duty of nations to guard their own borders and sovereignty.
The right of churches to pass along their doctrine, unpoisoned by modern sexual ideology.

The suave and rootless Citizens of International Business Class have their own set of deep-seated feelings. Most of them start with scorn.
They loathe people like Charlie Gard’s parents. “Ignorant” Britons who support measures like Brexit. “Benighted” Poles who won’t legalize abortion. “Bigoted” Hungarians who won’t let “the Turk” reoccupy their country. “Racist” Americans (of every race) who voted for Donald Trump.
Charlie Gard has become a symbol, whose influence will live on. His parents are doing what’s healthy and natural. So are the voters in Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary. And yes, so were we in our last presidential election.
These elitists are desperate to keep real decisions out of the hands of voters. To concentrate power upward, in the hands of the few. To manage the media, censor Facebook, terrorize populists and patriots. And to stigmatize as “extremists” those who still think and speak as Churchill, De Gaulle, and Adenauer once did — of freedom, faith, and Western civilization.

https://stream.org/will-charlie-gard...harlie-7-14-17

an institution is not a parent

http://time.com/4851407/charlie-gard...als-catholics/

I'm not going to address the political aspects of what was said above. But it is the ethics that trouble me.

I've followed this a little and it is my understanding that the treatment the parents want for Charlie are, admittedly by the American doctor who will administer them, not a cure. The regenerative therapy might prolong Charlie's life, but his condition is terminal and he'll be right back in this place within months or a little over a year after this regenerative therapy. In my opinion, that only prolongs Charlie's suffering. What are they going to do, raise another 1.8 million dollars to have a second wave of treatments administered to prolong Charlie's life even more once he's back at this place? And what kind of unscrupulous doctor would bilk parents of a terminally ill child for millions, when what he has to offer is admittedly not a cure? In the end, Charlie will only have prolonged suffering, the parents who are blinded with grief and desperately trying to hold on to a child they have to let go will still lose their child, the child is turned into a guinea pig, and... an American doctor will be at least 1.8 million dollars richer.

It makes no sense to me. As of right now, I think the child and the grieving parents should be protected by exploitation, and Charlie should be made comfortable and allowed to pass naturally and with dignity.

Maybe you can square me away on this with more details, but this is what I've gathered thus far:

What is wrong with Charlie Gard?

Charlie has a very rare mitochondrial disease caused by a genetic defect inherited from his parents. The official diagnosis is infantile onset encephalomyopathic mitochondrial DNA depletion syndrome, referred to generally as "MDDS".


What is mitochondrial disease?

Mitochondria supply energy to the cells in the human body. Mitochondrial failure leads to cellular injury and cell death. When multiple cells fail, the body’s organs are damaged and shut down. These diseases are usually fatal and kill children, although sometimes they don’t show up until adulthood. Where they don’t kill, they cause serious permanent brain damage.


What is the damage to Charlie?

Charlie is in intensive care at Great Ormond Street hospital in London, the leading children’s hospital in the UK. Life support machines are keeping him alive. The hospital says that he has severe brain damage, cannot move or breathe by himself, is deaf and has epilepsy. It says his heart, liver and kidneys are also affected. His eyelids cannot stay open and because of the weakness of the muscles, his eyes point in different directions and the damage to the brain will not allow his sight to develop.

However, Charlie’s mother, Connie Yates, said on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Monday that her son is responsive, enjoying tickles and watching videos with his parents. She also said that she had yet to see proof that her son had irreversible brain damage.

Why did the hospital go to the courts?

Charlie’s doctors say his condition is incurable and that his quality of life is poor. They say nobody can know whether he is suffering pain. Under these circumstances, and believing treatment to be futile, they would not want to prolong his life. They went to court because they could not come to an agreement with Charlie’s parents to turn off the machines keeping Charlie alive.

The high court, appeal court and the European court of human rights in Strasbourg all agreed that to prolong Charlie’s life risked causing him further suffering and gave permission for the hospital to switch off the life support systems. They said that further treatment would not help him.

What is the treatment Charlie’s parents want to try?

A doctor in the US has offered the baby nucleoside therapy, which is an experimental drug treatment that has not been tested even in mice for the disease Charlie has. The doctor has been supported by others from the Bambino Gesù paediatric hospital’s neurosciences department in the Vatican – they wrote a joint letter to the hospital last week appealing for Great Ormond Street to rethink its decision not to treat Charlie further.

They say there is new evidence that the treatment could help the baby. They say that tests in mice and patients with a different mitochondrial condition have shown “dramatic clinical improvements”.

What do the Great Ormond Street doctors think of this treatment?

They say they considered this treatment at the end of last year, when Connie Yates found out about it online and raised it with them. In a statement last month, the hospital said it had actually applied for ethical permission to try the experimental drug on Charlie, even though it had never been used before on a patient with his condition.

“By the time that decision was made, Charlie’s condition had greatly worsened and the view was that his epileptic encephalopathy was such that his brain damage was severe and irreversible that treatment was potentially painful but incapable of achieving anything positive for him,” said the hospital.

What has changed?

Nothing has changed in the opinion of the experts at Great Ormond Street. But the international and public pressure, including comments from the Pope and Donald Trump, have led the hospital to go back to the high court. Great Ormond Street’s lawyers are asking the court to consider whether there is new evidence that nucleoside therapy might help Charlie, and if so whether he should receive the experimental drug.

What effect could the treatment have on Charlie?

It is impossible to say, but nobody thinks it can reverse the brain damage that has already occurred. That includes the doctor in the US who has offered the experimental treatment. The implication is that it might only prevent further deterioration.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...tions-answered

I do feel for the child's parents. They are obviously not handling this very well and are overwhelmed and grasping at anything that might give them a few more moments with their child. And, who can blame them? I sure don't. But who is logically looking out for what is best for Charlie with concern for his comfort and quality of life? Who stands to gain financially? And ultimately where will Charlie be at the end of it all? Maybe if the doctor was offering the treatment for free, I'd feel more comfortable with what the parent's are doing. But this guy even admits that it isn't going to reverse the brain damage and that it only might prevent more deterioration. Either way, he makes over a million dollars as it stands right now. It kinda looks like the doctor is exploiting these parents without any regards for Charlie's comfort or prospective quality of life.

I could be wrong. But these are my initial thoughts and concerns on this one.

[Amanah]

Aquila, I have very mixed emotions about this.

1. I feel like the parents are taking extreme and unnecessary measures on one hand.
2. the European courts are usurping the parents rights on the other hand
3. and others are getting involved and using the situation to further their political agenda.

I really just posted it to see what others thought. To me it seems like a sick and sad lose/lose situation.

[Esaias]

Liberals "Just let him die!"

Euthanasia, its what's for dinner at Cafe SJW.

Until it's THEIR turn, or someone in THEIR family (depends on the insurance payout, I guess).

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Aquila, I have very mixed emotions about this.

1. I feel like the parents are taking extreme and unnecessary measures on one hand.
2. the European courts are usurping the parents rights on the other hand
3. and others are getting involved and using the situation to further their political agenda.

I really just posted it to see what others thought. To me it seems like a sick and sad lose/lose situation.

I agree. It really is.

[n david]

Biggest issue for me is the rights of the parents have been subverted by the courts and hospital. Regardless of what the prognosis may be, parents should always have the final decision.

[Aquila]

I can't imagine what the parents are going through.

When my mom had her heart attack the EMS took her to Miami Valley hospital in Dayton, Ohio where she had surgery and the doctors put shunts into her. She was awake and doing relatively well. She wanted to read her Bible and pray, so she read some Psalms she loved and we prayed. She wanted to thank God that she survived and she prayed with me and repented of everything she felt she had done wrong in her life. We prayed for a complete healing and praised God for His goodness and mercy. The Spirit moved powerfully and our faith was high. I left to go home because I had work the next day and she seemed to be doing so well.

Later that evening I received a phone call saying that my mother's condition had worsened and that she was no longer conscious and that she was being moved to Ross Heart Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. I called into work and we loaded up to meet her there. After me and our family gathered at the hospital the doctors gave us a briefing on her condition. Her prognosis was "grim". The heart attack had done so much damage to the heart it wasn't recovering. In fact, her condition was worsening. She was coding almost every 15 or 20 minutes. Every time this happened they would administer the paddles and regain her heartbeat. She wasn't a candidate for a heart transplant. They advised that the damage to the heart was so extensive, they saw no possible way she'd stabilize. Essentially, they'd keep zapping her until they finally lost her.

Since I was the only next of kin, it was my decision to either have them keep zapping her every few minutes until they lost her, or I could give the decision to stand down and cease all life saving measures. It was one of the hardest decisions of my life. I asked if she was aware of what was happening to her and the doctor said that she was most likely somewhat aware, though she was too weak to speak. I asked if she was feeling any discomfort with the measures being taken and he advised that she was most likely experiencing a high degree of physical duress with each episode.

Here was my mom, the only parent I ever had while growing up and she was suffering and it was up to me to give the order to cease life saving measures. She coded several times while we were discussing her condition in the family conference room. I didn't want them zapping her and beating on her chest all night until they lost her. If she were going to die, I wanted her to die peacefully and with dignity. I asked the doctor if she could hear me and he said that there was a chance that she could, though she wouldn't be able to respond. I gave the order to cease life saving measures after stabilizing her the next time she coded. I arranged to have the family enter her room while she was stable and we all gathered around her bed. I held her hand and explained what had happened and the choice I had to make. I promised her that I would be by her side, holding her hand until she was with Jesus. I also told her who was there with us, and each told her how much they loved her and that she wasn't alone. It was me, my grandmother, my uncle John, my aunt Lois, my aunt Shirley, my cousin Angela, my uncle Bob, and my great aunt Nancy. I told my mom that I loved her and that she meant the world to me. A single tear rolled down the side of her face and she weakly gripped my hand. The machine began reading "XXXX" as her heart entered fibrillation. It was time. I told her that I was going to start praying and that I wanted her to pray with me. We all prayed for her, that God be merciful and that she be carried by the angels into the arms of Jesus. My son, who was just two days shy of his first birthday was at a sitter's. She had been so excited about his first birthday, and now she was going to miss it. So, I also prayed that, if it were at all possible, that the Lord would allow the angels to take her to see my son, Noah, just one more time before taking her to Heaven. And then her heart stopped. It was over. She was gone.

We stayed at a hotel that night. No one felt like driving back to Dayton. The next morning we met in my grandmother's room where she was with my great aunt Nancy and we were talking and decompressing from the events that transpired the night before. In the middle of the conversation, we all just stopped talking. Nancy looked at my grandmother who was already looking at her, and said, "It felt like Joyce just walked into this room." As soon as that was said, there was a knock at the door. It was the sitter in Columbus who had been watching Noah that night bringing him to us for the trip home. I know I have no Bible for it, and I know some might think I'm crazy, and I don't claim to be an expert...and I could be wrong... but it seemed like we all felt my mom in that room just before Noah's sitter arrived because God not only allowed her to visit with Noah after her passing, but allowed her to spend the entire night with him. And now she was letting her presence be known as Noah was being returned to us. It was her loving goodbye before leaving this world for her Heavenly home.

Making the decision to end a life, or having a life slip through your hands, is something that never leaves you. Whether it be killing in the line of duty, losing someone you're desperately trying to save, or choosing to end life saving measures. It all takes a toll. But I've never lost a child. They say that losing a child is the worst possible feeling of loss a person can feel. So, I don't blame these parents one bit for going to the extreme to save their child. But I also don't know if all this is in his best interests. It's all so very sad.

Ultimately, right or wrong, it should be the parent's choice. I pray that God takes over and insures that whatever is best for the child transpires.

[TakingDominion]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I can't imagine what the parents are going through.

When my mom had her heart attack the EMS took her to Miami Valley hospital in Dayton, Ohio where she had surgery and the doctors put shunts into her. She was awake and doing relatively well. She wanted to read her Bible and pray, so she read some Psalms she loved and we prayed. She wanted to thank God that she survived and she prayed with me and repented of everything she felt she had done wrong in her life. We prayed for a complete healing and praised God for His goodness and mercy. The Spirit moved powerfully and our faith was high. I left to go home because I had work the next day and she seemed to be doing so well.

Later that evening I received a phone call saying that my mother's condition had worsened and that she was no longer conscious and that she was being moved to Ross Heart Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. I called into work and we loaded up to meet her there. After me and our family gathered at the hospital the doctors gave us a briefing on her condition. Her prognosis was "grim". The heart attack had done so much damage to the heart it wasn't recovering. In fact, her condition was worsening. She was coding almost every 15 or 20 minutes. Every time this happened they would administer the paddles and regain her heartbeat. She wasn't a candidate for a heart transplant. They advised that the damage to the heart was so extensive, they saw no possible way she'd stabilize. Essentially, they'd keep zapping her until they finally lost her.

Since I was the only next of kin, it was my decision to either have them keep zapping her every few minutes until they lost her, or I could give the decision to stand down and cease all life saving measures. It was one of the hardest decisions of my life. I asked if she was aware of what was happening to her and the doctor said that she was most likely somewhat aware, though she was too weak to speak. I asked if she was feeling any discomfort with the measures being taken and he advised that she was most likely experiencing a high degree of physical duress with each episode.

Here was my mom, the only parent I ever had while growing up and she was suffering and it was up to me to give the order to cease life saving measures. She coded several times while we were discussing her condition in the family conference room. I didn't want them zapping her and beating on her chest all night until they lost her. If she were going to die, I wanted her to die peacefully and with dignity. I asked the doctor if she could hear me and he said that there was a chance that she could, though she wouldn't be able to respond. I gave the order to cease life saving measures after stabilizing her the next time she coded. I arranged to have the family enter her room while she was stable and we all gathered around her bed. I held her hand and explained what had happened and the choice I had to make. I promised her that I would be by her side, holding her hand until she was with Jesus. I also told her who was there with us, and each told her how much they loved her and that she wasn't alone. It was me, my grandmother, my uncle John, my aunt Lois, my aunt Shirley, my cousin Angela, my uncle Bob, and my great aunt Nancy. I told my mom that I loved her and that she meant the world to me. A single tear rolled down the side of her face and she weakly gripped my hand. The machine began reading "XXXX" as her heart entered fibrillation. It was time. I told her that I was going to start praying and that I wanted her to pray with me. We all prayed for her, that God be merciful and that she be carried by the angels into the arms of Jesus. My son, who was just two days shy of his first birthday was at a sitter's. She had been so excited about his first birthday, and now she was going to miss it. So, I also prayed that, if it were at all possible, that the Lord would allow the angels to take her to see my son, Noah, just one more time before taking her to Heaven. And then her heart stopped. It was over. She was gone.

We stayed at a hotel that night. No one felt like driving back to Dayton. The next morning we met in my grandmother's room where she was with my great aunt Nancy and we were talking and decompressing from the events that transpired the night before. In the middle of the conversation, we all just stopped talking. Nancy looked at my grandmother who was already looking at her, and said, "It felt like Joyce just walked into this room." As soon as that was said, there was a knock at the door. It was the sitter in Columbus who had been watching Noah that night bringing him to us for the trip home. I know I have no Bible for it, and I know some might think I'm crazy, and I don't claim to be an expert...and I could be wrong... but it seemed like we all felt my mom in that room just before Noah's sitter arrived because God not only allowed her to visit with Noah after her passing, but allowed her to spend the entire night with him. And now she was letting her presence be known as Noah was being returned to us. It was her loving goodbye before leaving this world for her Heavenly home.

Making the decision to end a life, or having a life slip through your hands, is something that never leaves you. Whether it be killing in the line of duty, losing someone you're desperately trying to save, or choosing to end life saving measures. It all takes a toll. But I've never lost a child. They say that losing a child is the worst possible feeling of loss a person can feel. So, I don't blame these parents one bit for going to the extreme to save their child. But I also don't know if all this is in his best interests. It's all so very sad.

Ultimately, right or wrong, it should be the parent's choice. I pray that God takes over and insures that whatever is best for the child transpires.

That my friend, was one of the most moving and special stories I have ever heard. My heart breaks for you and the decision you had to make. Yet, I'm overjoyed how the Lord answered one last prayer for your mom and little Noah. God bless you and I pray his strength envelops you in the days to come.

Thank you again for sharing.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

That my friend, was one of the most moving and special stories I have ever heard. My heart breaks for you and the decision you had to make. Yet, I'm overjoyed how the Lord answered one last prayer for your mom and little Noah. God bless you and I pray his strength envelops you in the days to come.

Thank you again for sharing.

God is so good. He's been a loving Father who hasn't answered every prayer, but He's never let me down. God bless you.

[n david]

Breaking news this morning: Charlie's parents have withdrawn their request to have Charlie flown to the US. They said further tests have shown it is too late and no treatment will be able to help him.

Incredibly sad. I have to wonder if the hospital and government allowed the parents to do this months ago, instead of time wasted in court, if Charlie could have been spared.