Quote:
Originally Posted by TK Burk
Please, explain how you know the clouds in Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:26 and Luke 21:27 are not literal clouds.
Wasn't Jesus literally coming in "power" and in "glory"?
So, what biblical evidence did you use to decide these clouds were not literal as well? |
That's a fair question. In each of these passages Jesus is prophesying about the destruction of Jerusalem. He speaks, using apocalyptic OT imagery such as the sun being darkened, the moon turning to blood, and the stars falling. All of these were used in relation to the deduction of nations in the OT. For example:
ISAIAH 13:9-11
"See, the day of the Lord is coming - a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger - to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. I will punish the world for its evil." [NIV]
This passage, so similar in form to the words of Christ and speaks of the destruction of the land of Babylon. This section is one of the "burdens" of various kingdoms that Isaiah was prophesying against. The "day of the Lord" was, as previously noted, the actual war event when, in this instance, Babylon was conquered by the Medes. In verse 17, God says, "behold, I will stir up the Medes against them." Note also, that God punished the "world" for its evil - that is, the Babylonian "world."
The imagery of the STARS WILL NOT SHOW THEIR LIGHT, the SUN DARKENED, and MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, simply reflects the great distress, despair, and desolation of the Babylonians when this terrible thing happened to them. It was as if the "sun went down on their nation," as we might say it today.
The stars and physical universe did not go dark because the Medo-Persian empire supplanted the Babylonian one. This language is figurative.
Also consider:
EZEKIEL 30:18; 32:7-8
"At Tehaphnehes also the day shall be darkened, when I shall break there the yokes of Egypt: and the pomp of her strength shall cease in her: as for her, a cloud shall cover her, and her daughters shall go into captivity." And when I shall put thee [Pharaoh] out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God."
Here, we see a prophecy concerning Egypt. That nation would be destroyed by God, using the Babylonians (Ezek. 30:10) in 572 B.C. This destruction would cause the DARKNESS of distress and desolation to the conquered peoples of Egypt.
These are just two examples. However, the very same figurative language is used in prophecy as it relates to the deduction of Judah in the Assyrian attack leading to he Jewish captivity in 721 BC and elsewhere.
With these things in mind, read Christ's words again:
MATTHEW 24:15-30
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
Christ is clearly using OT apocalyptic language that is figurative, or symbolic, of the total doom and destruction of a nation. However, here the destruction Jerusalem is in view.
Notice that what is reflected in the clouds on this day is "the sign of the Son of Man", and it is in this "sign" that the Son of Man is to be seen as coming in power and great glory. What was the "sign" that would slow the entire Jewish nation that the Son of Man had come? The very destruction of Jerusalem, the Temple, and as a result...the destruction of the entire, now obsolete, system of the Old Covenant.
But what we see in
Acts 1 is different. It's an actual description of a literal event witnessed real time by the disciples. Let's read:
ACTS 1:9-11
9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
Jesus literally ascended into the sky and, at a given point, literal cloud covered him from their sight. It wasn't a symbolic prophecy, it was an event being witnessed. And so the message of the angels indicates that when Christ returns, he'll literally descend from the heavens.
I pray my answer helps the Futurist understand why Preterists see the coming of the Son of Man in the clouds of the Oliver Discourse as being figurative prophetic language. I also pray that Preterists can understand why the cloud reference in
Acts 1 is a reference to a literal cloud.
To the unwary Preterist, it becomes easy to make the error that every cloud in Scripture is figurative. But that is an unbalanced approach, because it doesn't draw distinction between passages wherein figurative prophetic language is being used and passages wherein simple conversational language, or actual descriptive language, is being used.
All art punished.
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