Psychotropic Drugs in Religious Rituals

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by houston

Why was the cross dresser banned?

How many should we have here?

In Tampa Florida is the headquarters for Homosexual Apostolic Pentecostals.

The group was started by a William H. Carey who says that God is Billy Joel.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Because I'm one of the few more moderate voices that tries to be logical, and is truly remorseful when conversations get too heated. And, agree with me or not, I've had one thing said to me over and over... I made people think.

Ex-Pentecostal Troll looking for converts.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Chris, was the kid in highschool smoking oregano pin joints. No, he posted that he did something when he was in his 30s, never knew anyone who was a burn out. Therefore Chris doesn't have a clue to the DAMAGE physical or SPIRITUAL. Maybe he is getting a kickback for posting his by some Medical Marijuana group? I think Apostolic1Ness got it pretty close that Chris just wants to smoke dubes so he is looking for some "Apostolic" thumbs up? But I believe that Chris like to burn ants under the magnifying glass. He likes to throw out garbage that is as he says "outside the box" to watch the kiddies play. That is the extent of his interaction here. Blow up standards, blow up leadership, go to the political section and play the flaming liberal. Talk about how he and his live in girlfriend get naked and eat breakfast, how people who fly the flag of Dixie are traitors. All to do what? To get a bda reaction from those he left behind long ago. His latest threatening suicide was absolutely his most stupid stunt. He has zero cred therefore his best case scenario is to go find a PASTOR.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I've clarified every thing you are still obsessing over. If you could just let it go, and have honest dialogue, you'll realize that I'm not here for trouble and that we actually agree on far more than we disagree on. You'll also notice that I share some of the same concerns as you do. But, I don't always see those concerns as radically fundamental as you might. For example, as I said above, depriving a family of a treatment that could help their child who has multiple seizures a day is an act of violence against them. Depriving vets a treatment that can help them get their lives under control is an act of violence against them. Depriving those suffering from the debilitating effects of Parkinson's is an act of violence against them. Depriving cancer patients treatments that can easy pain and assist with creating appetite is an act of violence against them. Do we pray that they all receive a miraculous healing? Yes! But until that healing comes, let's not force them to suffer when a significant amount of suffering can be relieved.

The dangers of any powerful drug or medication are real. We agree on this. But the potential for abuse doesn't negate the potential for good. A broad brush approach that sweeps epileptics, vets, those with Parkinson's, and those struggling with cancer treatments, under the rug and ignores them isn't the answer. We can see the good in a thing, advocate for responsible use, and focus in on those who abuse and set them free... all at the same time.

It's very dynamic and multifaceted approach. We can come out of the darkness of outdated paradigms that say, "Fire burn. Fire bad.", and realize that fire, while powerful, isn't bad in and of itself. It can be used for great good and great evil. Fire can keep a family warm and alive through winter. Fire can cook food. Fire can also be used by an arsonist to perpetrate great evil against another. But it isn't fire that is evil. It is the heart of those individuals involved that must be discerned. Just saying "Fire burn. Fire bad. Ban fire" isn't an honest approach to any issue.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Ex-Pentecostal Troll looking for converts.

Thinking can be dangerous.

But not thinking is far more dangerous.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How many should we have here?

In Tampa Florida is the headquarters for Homosexual Apostolic Pentecostals.

The group was started by a William H. Carey who says that God is Billy Joel.

say it aint so. HAP

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Chris, you don't post as if it is just your opinion. Big difference. You post as if the things you say, the article you present, and videos you show are solid evidence for your claims. Hence the "arguments" due to rebuttals of you fallacy being paraded as facts. Chris, Votive and myself know far more than you because we lived it. Lived around people who suffered through these drugs you advocate as miraculous cures. Votive and I have also seen conversions of people who once SUFFERED from the destructive results of marijuana to convert to the saving power of the Holy Ghost. You have no hands on experience with any of that, therefore you see cannabis as the second coming.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I've clarified every thing you are still obsessing over.

Obsessing, far from it. I'm just keeping in front and center, pointing out who and what you really are. That my observances of you are correct. While you would rather have these issues remain buried beneath pages of posts.

Originally Posted by Aquila

If you could just let it go,

Hence the reason you are called multifaceted. You are a flip flopper, you range from pole to pole. So, bringing these things up show what you are about. Oddly enough, you happen to not like that, because you understand it blows your cover.

Originally Posted by Aquila

and have honest dialogue,

But we are, you just happen to be dishonest, and it exposes your game.

Originally Posted by Aquila

you'll realize that I'm not here for trouble and that we actually agree on far more than we disagree on.

Chris, if you were honest, and if you really sought to have some sort of meeting of the minds. Then you wouldn't battle so hard for people to accept your position concerning the most outrageous ideas. Listen, how long where you in Christianity? Apostolic Pentecostalism? Even the bless me club you just left didn't accept your ideas. But, instead of working something out, you left. Therefore, with this medium you only retreat when you really ram your foot in your mouth. You leave for a time, then come back when you believe everyone has forgotten. Chris, we wouldn't ever agree on psychotropic drug use. You have a huge deficit in that you are clueless of any hands on real life experience with doing them, living in a culture which was using, or the effects of those substances being used on others. All you are doing is Polly Parroting NPR and all the other Bernie Sanderisms you ram down our throats. In short, once again Chris you pick topics to incite a riot, not to discuss the facts to find the Truth.

Originally Posted by Aquila

You'll also notice that I share some of the same concerns as you do.

That is part of your somersaulting and flip flopping to gain advantage in the discussion. You want everyone to think you are being balanced, and somewhat Libertarian Christain. Yet, Chris, we don't determine a discussion from one post, or from one thread. We take into consideration everything you have written on the subject or even other subjects. Even if every point of view you had penned wasn't really who you are, you paint a picture of someone looking to have others agree of psychotropic plant and fungi consumption. Who is trying to convince a Christina forum to consume cannabis' THC. Which I and others are 100% against.

Originally Posted by Aquila

But, I don't always see those concerns as radically fundamental as you might. For example, as I said above, depriving a family of a treatment that could help their child who has multiple seizures a day is an act of violence against them. Depriving vets a treatment that can help them get their lives under control is an act of violence against them. Depriving those suffering from the debilitating effects of Parkinson's is an act of violence against them. Depriving cancer patients treatments that can easy pain and assist with creating appetite is an act of violence against them. Do we pray that they all receive a miraculous healing? Yes! But until that healing comes, let's not force them to suffer when a significant amount of suffering can be relieved.

Chris that is full blown baloney. Illegal, doesn't mean impossible to acquire and use. I cannot own a RPG 7, but it isn't impossible to buy one, and own it.
I said all that to say this, if cannabis or LSD were the miraculous substances you and your BIG PHARMA propaganda claims, then honeychild we would of been using it for those conditions long ago Jim. So, while you have been convinced of the stories, I have seen the results first hand. I don't buy what you are selling...Pusherman.

Originally Posted by Aquila

The dangers of any powerful drug or medication are real.

Why because you heard that somewhere?

Originally Posted by Aquila

We agree on this.

I know first hand, you heard it somewhere, or read about it in a Google search. I thought you were EMS? All first responders I know, have dealt with multiple psychotropic situations. I know of a church group who worked EMS at concerts, they would wonder how long you have been EMS. Another thing, Apostolic Pentecostal service cause you to have PTSD issues, but working as a first responder doesn't?

Originally Posted by Aquila

But the potential for abuse doesn't negate the potential for good.

The above is another way of saying the lesser of two evils. That isn't how we come to truth. Potential only means it could develop into something positive. In other words, it may or may not work. We are telling you that the use of weed doesn't conclusively prove it cures. Reason being we have seen that it doesn't. Listen, I don't want someone smoking a dube an operating a crane. i don't want someone riding with me on their GXR, when they finished smoking one dube. Listen, people do it all the time and are able to operate the crane, ride the bike, and get home. But the the times that the THC causes a glitch, someone dies. Can you dig that potential? No, you will figure out another agenda motivated argument against it. Again, Aquila when was the last time you ingested CANNABIS!

Originally Posted by Aquila

A broad brush approach that sweeps epileptics, vets, those with Parkinson's, and those struggling with cancer treatments, under the rug and ignores them isn't the answer. We can see the good in a thing, advocate for responsible use, and focus in on those who abuse and set them free... all at the same time.

My sister just endured a year of debilitating chemo treatments. She smoked weed when she was young. Also knew about medical marijuana being used for people who were being treated with chemo. Do you know why she chose not to use the weed to treat the negative effects of chemo? I know more about hormonal effects from food, chemicals, emotions and our surroundings, then you. In weightlifting, what works for one athlete may not work for another. Because one BCCA, or supplement cannot do its job, if other factors are employed. Someone who is telling you a vegan diet is profitable to them, doesn't mean it will be profitable to you or i. Because we are not all the same. Telling me I'm broadbrushing this subject is what you are actually doing. Because you are clueless about human physiology. But wait? You are EMS? You would have to know these things? But the question is why would you believe a natural substance will work for everyone in the situations you had mentioned? You understanding the body works would know that? Right?

So, while THC might work for these people, it might work for none of the other group, and there may have a group who had a bad reaction? Again, you are playing Russian Roulette. With souls, and all you can give is dramatic tear jerking stories as you always do.

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's very dynamic and multifaceted approach. We can come out of the darkness of outdated paradigms that say, "Fire burn. Fire bad.",

That is a stupid thing to say. I haven't been talking about 1936 film Reefer Madness. I'm speaking about what I know, Votive, and 1ofthechosen are posting about what they know. All three of us been there done that, and found that the power of Jesus Christ' Holy Ghost is the only way.

Originally Posted by Aquila

and realize that fire, while powerful, isn't bad in and of itself. It can be used for great good and great evil. Fire can keep a family warm and alive through winter. Fire can cook food. Fire can also be used by an arsonist to perpetrate great evil against another. But it isn't fire that is evil. It is the heart of those individuals involved that must be discerned. Just saying "Fire burn. Fire bad. Ban fire" isn't an honest approach to any issue.

This one quote proves your cluelessness concerning this subject.

Putting more narcotics legal, is using gasoline to put out a fire. People having a barbeque take a gas can to start the grill. Not a good look. You wanting to take away prohibitions to make America free is blood on your head. Again, you are the kid who was smoking oregano pin joints in High School and later became an expert on reefer.

Go find a PASTOR

Quick

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Thinking can be dangerous.

But not thinking is far more dangerous.

Problem with you kid, is that you don't think.

That is what your postings over the years have solidified in my mind.

That you just throw it out there, posting before thinking.

[houston]

Now, if he isn’t full of himself he’s full of...

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Chris, you don't post as if it is just your opinion. Big difference. You post as if the things you say, the article you present, and videos you show are solid evidence for your claims. Hence the "arguments" due to rebuttals of you fallacy being paraded as facts.

I think we can take it for granted that all of us are sharing our opinions and current understanding of whatever it is we are discussing.

Chris, Votive and myself know far more than you because we lived it. Lived around people who suffered through these drugs you advocate as miraculous cures. Votive and I have also seen conversions of people who once SUFFERED from the destructive results of marijuana to convert to the saving power of the Holy Ghost. You have no hands on experience with any of that, therefore you see cannabis as the second coming.

Duly noted. Yet, couldn't your experience with abusers of cannabis cause your opinion of using cannabis medically be jaded beyond a rational and balanced opinion?

Obsessing, far from it. I'm just keeping in front and center, pointing out who and what you really are. That my observances of you are correct. While you would rather have these issues remain buried beneath pages of posts.

It shouldn't matter if one was a prostitute, or Colonel Sanders, if they make a good point, it's a good point. If they point out evidence to their claim, that evidence deserves an evaluation. You seem to think that by slandering your opposition personally, you can label everything they say as being false. When in truth, that isn't true. That's why in a discussion like this, we should stay on the topic, not digress into critiquing the person. I'm sure we've all done enough in our past for us all to have no creditability.

And your observances of me? On an internet forum? LOL Bro., you need to get out more. There's far more to a person than the silly things they might post on an internet forum.

Hence the reason you are called multifaceted. You are a flip flopper, you range from pole to pole. So, bringing these things up show what you are about. Oddly enough, you happen to not like that, because you understand it blows your cover.

But we are, you just happen to be dishonest, and it exposes your game.

Yes, I'm willing to change or modify my position based on additional information and as the conversation continues. Part of this is because good points are made, sometimes it is because clarification is in order. Many times, a statement or position of mine is clarified, but you cling to the misunderstanding on purpose to distort the reality. That's you being dishonest. Not me.

Chris, if you were honest, and if you really sought to have some sort of meeting of the minds. Then you wouldn't battle so hard for people to accept your position concerning the most outrageous ideas. Listen, how long where you in Christianity? Apostolic Pentecostalism?

Still Christian, still Oneness Apostolic. 29+ years.

Even the bless me club you just left didn't accept your ideas. But, instead of working something out, you left.

Ummm. I've left three churches. Reasons included a blatant lie, the discovery of the mismanagement of funds, and just feeling unwelcomed. For the most part, each church was friendly enough. We trump that up to be more than it is? What ideas was I pushing for? What ideas of mine did they reject?

Please tell me, or admit you're making things up. I'm going to return to this. So, please answer.

Therefore, with this medium you only retreat when you really ram your foot in your mouth. You leave for a time, then come back when you believe everyone has forgotten.

Really? I've only taken short breaks when work takes me away, when I feel it's too heated, and when it gets boring. lol

Is this forum all you have in your life???

Chris, we wouldn't ever agree on psychotropic drug use. You have a huge deficit in that you are clueless of any hands on real life experience with doing them, living in a culture which was using, or the effects of those substances being used on others. All you are doing is Polly Parroting NPR and all the other Bernie Sanderisms you ram down our throats. In short, once again Chris you pick topics to incite a riot, not to discuss the facts to find the Truth.

Having not been personally involved in drug culture, having seen how it has effected the lives of others, and having an open mind to medical advancements, I think that leaves me less jaded and biased than yourself, making me capable of seeing both the dangers and the benefits involved.

That is part of your somersaulting and flip flopping to gain advantage in the discussion. You want everyone to think you are being balanced, and somewhat Libertarian Christain. Yet, Chris, we don't determine a discussion from one post, or from one thread. We take into consideration everything you have written on the subject or even other subjects. Even if every point of view you had penned wasn't really who you are, you paint a picture of someone looking to have others agree of psychotropic plant and fungi consumption. Who is trying to convince a Christina forum to consume cannabis' THC. Which I and others are 100% against.

Allow the discussing to evolve. Allow the clarification of my position to evolve so that you can actually understand what I'm saying. Don't lock onto a single statement, don't misconstrue what I mean, and cling to it. Allow me to clarify. For example, you got your panties in a bunch thinking I threatened suicide. I hope that upon my clarification you better understand what the statement was intended to imply.

Chris that is full blown baloney. Illegal, doesn't mean impossible to acquire and use. I cannot own a RPG 7, but it isn't impossible to buy one, and own it.
I said all that to say this, if cannabis or LSD were the miraculous substances you and your BIG PHARMA propaganda claims, then honeychild we would of been using it for those conditions long ago Jim. So, while you have been convinced of the stories, I have seen the results first hand. I don't buy what you are selling...Pusherman.

A lot of the medical advancements we've seen in the last 20 years weren't available long ago. We had no idea how cannabis effected the endocannabinoid system to help better regulate the biochemistry of the brain. We know that now, Jim.

TO BE CONTINUED...

[Aquila]

CONTINUED....

I know first hand, you heard it somewhere, or read about it in a Google search. I thought you were EMS? All first responders I know, have dealt with multiple psychotropic situations. I know of a church group who worked EMS at concerts, they would wonder how long you have been EMS. Another thing, Apostolic Pentecostal service cause you to have PTSD issues, but working as a first responder doesn't?

There are plenty of us who have worked EMS, such as myself, and who currently work in various fields of medicine that support medical cannabis and even legalization. I know entire departments full of cops who would rather see legalization so that they can focus on more serious crimes... and they have had to walk into some of the most intense situations involving drugs and alcohol. And most will tell you, arresting college kids or a vet over possession of marijuana just doesn't make sense to them.

The above is another way of saying the lesser of two evils. That isn't how we come to truth. Potential only means it could develop into something positive. In other words, it may or may not work. We are telling you that the use of weed doesn't conclusively prove it cures. Reason being we have seen that it doesn't. Listen, I don't want someone smoking a dube an operating a crane. i don't want someone riding with me on their GXR, when they finished smoking one dube. Listen, people do it all the time and are able to operate the crane, ride the bike, and get home. But the the times that the THC causes a glitch, someone dies. Can you dig that potential? No, you will figure out another agenda motivated argument against it.

I still believe that employers in certain fields should be able to legally screen applicants and employees. I also agree that being under the influence of cannabis should be handled in the same manner as being under the influence of alcohol. Legalization doesn't automatically believe that it would be legal to operate a crane while smoking a blunt. That, again, is a gross mischaracterization of the position. Or more better put, a lie. Those who would do such a thing, should be prosecuted just like he would be if holding a bottle of Jack while operating a crane.

My sister just endured a year of debilitating chemo treatments. She smoked weed when she was young. Also knew about medical marijuana being used for people who were being treated with chemo. Do you know why she chose not to use the weed to treat the negative effects of chemo? I know more about hormonal effects from food, chemicals, emotions and our surroundings, then you. In weightlifting, what works for one athlete may not work for another. Because one BCCA, or supplement cannot do its job, if other factors are employed. Someone who is telling you a vegan diet is profitable to them, doesn't mean it will be profitable to you or i. Because we are not all the same. Telling me I'm broadbrushing this subject is what you are actually doing. Because you are clueless about human physiology. But wait? You are EMS? You would have to know these things? But the question is why would you believe a natural substance will work for everyone in the situations you had mentioned? You understanding the body works would know that? Right?

I also know a woman with some history who opted out of medical cannabis because she didn't like how cannabis made her feel. I'm not saying everyone absolutely must take it. That's crazy. You're right, what works for one may not work for another. We see that in current prescription meds too. What I'm saying is, those who do choose to try medical cannabis on account of not liking current prescription medications shouldn't face any condemnation over it. It's medication. So again, this is another red herring.

So, while THC might work for these people, it might work for none of the other group, and there may have a group who had a bad reaction? Again, you are playing Russian Roulette. With souls, and all you can give is dramatic tear jerking stories as you always do.

I've never said it is for everyone. And every individual should have the right to seek out medications for their symptoms and conditions with dignity, privacy, and personal responsibility. It's dangerous for me to push the idea as though everyone must do it... and it's dangerous for you to push the idea that nobody should do it.

When dealing with medication, it should be about personal conviction.

That is a stupid thing to say. I haven't been talking about 1936 film Reefer Madness. I'm speaking about what I know, Votive, and 1ofthechosen are posting about what they know. All three of us been there done that, and found that the power of Jesus Christ' Holy Ghost is the only way.

Well, myself and millions of others have conditions that we've sought healing for and are still waiting. In the mean time, medications have been of great help to many. While I've tried to steer clear of current prescription meds, I'm open to more natural and less powerful options. Cannabis isn't close to being as powerful as the prescription junk they want to pump into us. Yet it is often just as effective, if not more effective.

This one quote proves your cluelessness concerning this subject.

Bro., I know vets who had some serious symptoms. They had multiple pills they've had to take. But they turned to cannabis, and guess what... they were able to drop all those pills. I can't deny that. It stares me in the face when I talk to them.

Legalization will save billions, lead to less incarceration of non-violent people, and generate an industry. Please note, addiction can still be addressed. Prohibition has never worked.