2 Peter 3

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

And, everyone is so freaking fat. people are not healthy, but they are stuffing their faces with cookies, and candies, and cakes and pies.

Its not just the pastry dishes. People don't exercise, eat processed garbage that masquerades as food, consume way too much GMO and soy, and are just generally weaker, dumber, and lazier than previous generations. We're on the backside of the Bell curve at this point.

Today my 10 year old boy knocked out 200 dumbbell curls, a couple sets of clean and presses, and some deadlifts and squats (light barbell), plus a bunch of calisthenics. I'm back to the same size pants I was wearing 20 years ago. My older girls can literally crush pumpkins with their legs. Our goal is within 12 months to be getting zero food from the grocery stores.

Fat, soft, lazy, and stupid do not forge civilizations. But artificial societal respiration (aka mass welfare) certainly will kill a civisation.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The world order of Noah's day was destroyed by water, the earth itself was not destroyed. Society was wiped out, but the physical earth itself wasn't obliterated.

Yes

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Its not just the pastry dishes. People don't exercise, eat processed garbage that masquerades as food, consume way too much GMO and soy, and are just generally weaker, dumber, and lazier than previous generations. We're on the backside of the Bell curve at this point.

Today my 10 year old boy knocked out 200 dumbbell curls, a couple sets of clean and presses, and some deadlifts and squats (light barbell), plus a bunch of calisthenics. I'm back to the same size pants I was wearing 20 years ago. My older girls can literally crush pumpkins with their legs. Our goal is within 12 months to be getting zero food from the grocery stores.

Fat, soft, lazy, and stupid do not forge civilizations. But artificial societal respiration (aka mass welfare) certainly will kill a civisation.

will you be buying and selling at farmer's markets?

[mfblume]

The elements melting is similar to the world flooding in Noah's day. It's not the planet. In fact ELEMENTS is only used as a term to speak of the old covenant basic elementary issues that foreshadowed the new.

This is first century material.

[mfblume]

The Language of Judgment
Marvin Simmons
November 17, 2004

Scripture Text:

2 Peter 3:1-13 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: (2) That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Savior: (3) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. (5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished. (7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (8) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, (12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? (13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Message:


Scriptural language shows evidence of God speaking in certain ways.


* Revelation notes God signified his truth to John -- symbolic language depicting bible truth.
* Why?
* Why did Jesus speak in parables?
* A seeking heart that is teachable has a great quality.
* It is not given to some to know.
* Two people can hear the same word and one will approach it spiritually and benefit, while the other from a natural viewpoint gets nothing.

I detest fear-mongering and scare tactics in preaching relative to God's Word.

* You cannot scare folks into the Kingdom.
* They will only produce a surface commitment.

And some make it so mysterious they cannot understand it.

* Some believe they can never understand the bible.
* However, all scripture is inspired and profitable.
* Not one word is not profitable.
* That means we are meant to understand it.
* It is God-breathed.

But do not try to understand Revelation in a 21st century concept.

* If you read the first few verses it tells you that the book was sent back to seven churches.
* What would make the book something a first century church could understand and be blessed because they heard it and understood and received it, when today you can get 50 dozen different interpretations form the same book?
* The pastors would read it to those congregations, for them to hear, believe and understand and live by it.
* Is it sensible that 3 of those churches would believe it one way, three another and one totally different again?
* He does not teach differently in Ephesus than in Smyrna.The Spirit is one teacher.

When the letter came and they read it, all those first century churches would understand it.
o They did so without cobra helicopters, and stinger missiles and Abraham tanks and jet planes and computer chips.
o Someone wrote recently that God held the Revelation on the shelf until the computer age so we could now understand what they read when they read about the mark.
o So, what about the people beforehand in 1900 years who knew nothing about computers?

A language is being taken out of its context in cultural terms and time element terms.

* But God is doing something.
* As God pulls the shroud off the hearts of sincere people, a liberty of the Spirit occurs that will not be found otherwise.

The second coming of Jesus is real.

* He will break the clouds of glory and come again!
* But a revival must occur that will bring salvation to the lost.
* There will be a final resurrection of the people of God, but I do not believe it will be tonight.
* Does this destroy the coming of the Lord?
* Not at all.

We are accused of not believing Jesus is coming back again.

* I deny that!
* He is!
* It's just that my time element is different from others.

So let's look in the scripture.

Continued...

[mfblume]

This becomes one of the pivotal chapters that help us understand what to expect about the events of the world.

* Peter noted scoffers.
* What authority do I have to say we are living in the last days?
* Joel 2 says that the Spirit would be outpoured.
* He said "in the last days I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh."

The last days were the last days of the Law.

* When God would bring in a new covenant.
* He ratified it with the outpouring of the Spirit.
* Peter was well aware of the situation around him.
* His ministry led him to about 66 AD, four years before Jerusalem was destroyed.
* He was crucified upside down according to history.
* He spoke of mockers and pointed them to what Jesus pointed out.
* The flood.
* He said they might be ignorant, but all things have not continued as they were from the beginning.

There was a flood.

* The world at that time was overflowed and perished of water.
* People died in the flood.
* The earth did not die.
* The dove Noah released returned with an olive branch.
* Nothing was wrong with the earth.
* Noah even planted a vineyard.
* It was not the world that I walk on.
* That was not what was dissolved.
* The people perished.

Peter said "the heavens and the earth which are now."

* Now there is another heaven and earth that will have fire rained on it.
* If the first one was not destroyed, then what was this other one?
* It's not talking about the cosmic world.
* Heavens and earth are biblical terms concerning the people of God.

We are not near as smart as some of these archaeologists are.

* They find things that say the earth is millions of years old.
* I may not believe all of that, but they have lots of indication of a massive flood at one time, for example.
* I saw an oyster shell 14" across from end to end, found at Summit Lake at the highest point of the Alaska highway.
* The world was overflowed with water.
* But the world did not perish.
* The people did.

Peter speaks of the "day of the Lord."

We may get into this later, but it is indicative of a day of judgment that God would bring upon nations or His own people.

* Zephaniah 1 is a good example about what is the day of the Lord.
* Zephaniah spoke of Babylon overthrowing Jerusalem in the early 600's BC.
* When Peter spoke of the day of the Lord, He said it would come like a thief in the night.
* Preachers scared the daylights out of us with those messages.
* But then I read 1 Thess 5, where the bible says it's not for us, to overtake us like a thief.
* All of this language is apocalyptic of judgment to fall in a matter of a few short years from the time Peter wrote this, upon the city of Jerusalem.
* The elements would melt with fervent heat and the earth also, and the works shall be burned up.
* Things would be dissolved.
* The earth would be dissolved.
* "Find a hole!"?
* No.
* That is not what he is saying.


Look back into Psalm.

Quote:
Psalms 75:1-3 To the chief Musician, Al-taschith, A Psalm or Song of Asaph. Unto thee, O God, do we give thanks, unto thee do we give thanks: for that thy name is near thy wondrous works declare. (2) When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly. (3) The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

Psalms said the earth was dissolved, not going to be dissolved.

* You can stay in the Bible and stay with David's kingship and follow for at least 500 years of lineage and ministry of the house of David.
* If the earth was dissolved, how can you do that?
* You cannot dissolve the earth without dissolving everything in it.
* So how could Solomon rise up if the earth was dissolved?
* God is speaking of series of judgments upon Israel due to disobedience.

Quote:
Isaiah 24:16 From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.
Who is God speaking to?

* Israel.
* Earth is not South America or Mexico or Russia.
* It's the land of Israel.
* That is where Isaiah prophesied.

Quote:
Isaiah 24:18-21 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. (19) The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. (20) The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. (21) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

Language of judgment.

One preacher said the 20th verse speaks of "the mother of all earthquakes" coming.

* Japan just had 6.8 this last week.
* Earthquakes register in the high 6 and 7's Richter scale.
* Were we shaken in Canada?
* The language indicates severity of judgment that God would bring, and it did happen.
* Isaiah foretold what would happen and what God would do to get them out of it.

Quote:
Isaiah 34:1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.
Can the earth actually hear?

* It is speaking about His people!

Quote:
Isaiah 34:2-6 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. (3) Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. (4) And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. (5) For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment. (6) The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

What is God saying?

* He is sick and tired of all their sacrifices.
* So He will judge them.
* How?
* Take the heavens.
* How many light years are out there?
* God would take the heavens and roll it all up.
* He is speaking of a severity of judgments to take place on the earth.

Continued...

[mfblume]

Revelation 6:12-16 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (13) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. (14) And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (15) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; (16) And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

In Luke 23 Jesus was on his way to Calvary and spoke to the women weeping.

Quote:
Luke 23:28-30 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. (29) For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. (30) Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
Judgment was coming.

* As you study these scriptures and look at them form the standpoint of judgment, every time that something happens in the cosmic heavens, we are not looking and saying that is it!
* Recall the planets aligning.
* That was supposed to indicate the beginning of the end, and that has come and gone without the end.
* God is not playing games.
* Understand the language of His word or be led astray.
* Read God's Word with understanding!

Quote:
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Back to Matthew 24.

Quote:
Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

I tried understanding that verse for so long.

* What is He talking about and getting at?
* Tribulation and then talking about eagles and vultures.
* Go to Isaiah, though, and see where God promised that He would spread their carcases over the earth and feed them to fowls of the air.
* That was said before Babylon came down, and Nebuchadnezzar was was called "the eagle of the north."
* I read tracts of vultures multiplying 30 years ago, and it was proven to be false.
* The man who wrote the tract admitted he did it for a reaction.
* What is God doing?
* Getting a people to read through the eyes of the Spirit and not through carnal minds.


Quote:
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

That is tribulation to face Israel when the armies of Rome invaded her.

* How many know Bro. Luke tells us what the abomination of desolation was?
* Jerusalem compassed about with armies.
* God would send his armies.
* Not from heaven.
* He brought Babylonians against Jerusalem and called them His armies from the North in the Old Testament times!
* He judged Idumea and bathed his sword in heaven, but it was invading armies with God behind it.
* Men wielded the sword.
* Thayer's Greek Lexicon refers to POWERS saying it indicates power consisting in or resting upon armies, forces or hosts.
* Moon, stars and sun is not speaking about the actual sun, moon and stars.
* Joseph's vision spoke of the family of Joseph in the sun, moon and stars.

Isaiah 13 uses the same language to indicate the kingdom destroyed.

* It is pulling down governments and forces and authorities.
* If the stars of heaven would fall, one star alone is near the size of the earth. Many many are far greater.
* But the stars of heaven fell to the earth in the bible.
* Did the devil bring 1/3 of all physical stars from heaven?
* A crater in Syberia made one of the largest clear-water lakes in the world.
* In New Mexico a huge crater was hit with a very small meteor.
* This is not speaking of stars.
* It's judgments with government and kings being destroyed.
* Most of it was against Israel.
* God spoke of judgment upon Babylon:

Quote:
Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Haggai spoke of something we are in on today.

Quote:
Haggai 2:6-7 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; (7) And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.
When this began to occur, it meant Jesus was about to come to His temple.

* The glory would return.
* Where was the glory?
* In the face of Jesus Christ.
* Isaiah 40 foretells John the baptist preparing the way for the Glory of the Lord is revealed and all the earth seeth it together.

Quote:
Haggai 2:21 Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth;

Haggai 2:22 And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother.

Haggai 2:23 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts.

God would shake the heavens and destroy kingdoms.

Quote:
Hebrews 12:26-28 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. (27) And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. (28) Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Jesus said the Kingdom in Matthew 21 is taken from them and given to a nation bringing forth fruits.

* Paul interpreted the words of Haggai as saying the Kingdom of God has come with the old covenant leaving.
* Peter says the church is the holy nation.
* The kingdom of priests.
* God shook the OLD ORDER.
* It had no righteousness to offer.
* Peter said we look for a new heaven and earth wherein dwelleth righteousness.
* God made Christ our righteousness.
* That is what Hebrews was envisioning.

Quote:
Hebrews 1:10-12 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: (11) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; (12) And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

Read that from Psalms.

Quote:
Psalms 102:24-28 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations. (25) Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. (26) They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: (27) But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end. (28) The children of thy servants shall continue, and their seed shall be established before thee.
Back to Hebrews.

Quote:
(11) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

Notice Hebrews 8 now.

Quote:
Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Notice what waxes old!

* The old covenant!
* It could never take away sin and waxed old!
* So God folded it up like an old garment and put it away.
* He brought in the New!

Yesterday I prayed and felt God's Spirit take me on a journey through the word.

* Why was it that Israel goes into such problems to wind up in their city and temple being destroyed, with over 1 million dying, and others captivated?
* What would cause God's anger?
* Two things caused that.
* When Jesus came He came as Messenger of the covenant.
* They were under the old covenant and rejected the messenger of the new covenant.


continued...

[mfblume]

...continued

1 Corinthians 2:7-8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: (8) Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Why was this so important in his overall plan?

* They rejected the messenger, first of all.
* When Jesus died, Heb 9 says the covenant came into being at the death of the testator.
* The will is no good until you die.
* The covenant was in God's heart.
* Until the princes crucified the Lord, they had not yet released the new covenant
* His blood would ratify it.
* But notice in the first four chapters of Acts, you will find that when Peter directed the message of salvation, he spoke to ISRAEL.
* Israel now had the chance to repent.
* So after rejecting the messenger they rejected the covenant, itself.
* When they rejected the church, Acts 2:38, the message from God to be saved, was rejected.
* And that moment there was no other way for them.

All of this was God saying He would severely judge Israel.

It is a language of judgment commonly used in the bible with which we need to become familiar.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The elements melting is similar to the world flooding in Noah's day. It's not the planet. In fact ELEMENTS is only used as a term to speak of the old covenant basic elementary issues that foreshadowed the new.

This is first century material.

interesting, it seems you may be correct.

any first thing, from which the others belonging to some series or composite whole take their rise, an element, first principal

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...gs=G4747&t=KJV

[Amanah]

For those who see the "new heaven and new earth" as the "new covenant," will there be a cutoff date for the earth?

People are destroying the earth, will be even be habitable in 100 years?

Or do you see terra firma continuing indefinitely?