Great points! Alot of the people in the "oneness movement" do not know the difference between tri-theism. There is a world of difference there. I especially like your last part. "We need to be careful that we view our Dogma through scripture and not scripture through dogma." That is so, so true!
it is only a great point if you believe remission comes at repentance.
it is not a great point if you believe one must repent,be baptized in Jesus name and recieve the HG to be saved.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK
Ok whatever....we do have the Bible that says baptize in the NAME of the father, son and the HG. There is only one name, that is Jesus. But there are not alot people that know that. They go with they have been raised under or taught by Dogma. Let me ask you something...Would have a problem with someone saying, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the HG which is Jesus Christ?" Would that bother you?
The bible clearly demonstrates that the "name" is referring to authority, not to the utterance of "Jesus" as if it were an incantation.....abracadabra...
The police officer that says "Stop in the name of the law" is not saying to stop based on his utterance of the word "law"....but rather, stop by the authority he possesses as an enforcer of law....
The bible clearly demonstrates that the "name" is referring to authority, not to the utterance of "Jesus" as if it were an incantation.....abracadabra...
The police officer that says "Stop in the name of the law" is not saying to stop based on his utterance of the word "law"....but rather, stop by the authority he possesses as an enforcer of law....
I don't agree that it's as CLEAR as you say it is. I believe it is the utterance of the name, Jesus, along with the authority we are given to call on that name by faith. It's not a magical name but the name of the Lord. When you call on the name of Jesus in faith, God answers. Who would ever imply that the name of Jesus was magical? Maybe someone with utter disrespect for that name.
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Who's name do you call on when someone needs to be healed or delivered? We do have authority through the name but when we call on that name, God is there, he answers, he is working with us. It is not the name alone but the one whom the name represents.
Acts 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.
How was Paul doing things against a 'Name'? Why did the Lord say to Paul on the road to Damascus "why persecutest thou me?"
Man, I feel like I'm speaking to Trinitarians on CARM.
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The bible clearly demonstrates that the "name" is referring to authority, not to the utterance of "Jesus" as if it were an incantation.....abracadabra...
The police officer that says "Stop in the name of the law" is not saying to stop based on his utterance of the word "law"....but rather, stop by the authority he possesses as an enforcer of law....
Oh good grief.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I don't agree that it's as CLEAR as you say it is. I believe it is the utterance of the name, Jesus, along with the authority we are given to call on that name by faith. It's not a magical name but the name of the Lord. When you call on the name of Jesus in faith, God answers. Who would ever imply that the name of Jesus was magical? Maybe someone with utter disrespect for that name.
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Who's name do you call on when someone needs to be healed or delivered? We do have authority through the name but when we call on that name, God is there, he answers, he is working with us. It is not the name alone but the one whom the name represents.
Acts 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.
How was Paul doing things against a 'Name'? Why did the Lord say to Paul on the road to Damascus "why persecutest thou me?"
Man, I feel like I'm speaking to Trinitarians on CARM.
I know I owe you a post on the other issue. But let me jump in here for a second. Realize in the time of Jesus, there where many with the name of Jesus. In fact you’ll notice the tags of designation applied for clarity
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God
of Nazareth
This important point of delineation was provided to distinguish Jesus Christ from the many other men named Jesus of that time. The point of contention is this. We do all things through the authority of Jesus… His righteousness, His holiness, His blood, and so on… therefore this works fine with J-Roc’s conclusion – we do not find life though His name, for many shall call “Lord – Lord” but they do not know Him. We find life through His cross, and His resurrection, and the impartation of the Holy Spirit. Therefore life does come through His power and authority, not merely the vocalization of His name… right?
The manner that Paul was doing something against Jesus was – He was fighting the plan and authority of the mighty God. This being said – I love the name of Jesus!!!! However, I was shocked at the common place of it among Hispanics, during one of my many visits to the southwest…..
Of course that is your view! you believe that people are saved when they repent. clearly we dont agree on that.
But as much as you see my view in error, I see yours in equal error. (we are back to "all trinitarians are lost")
The deal is that you said, "I believe that the doctrine of the trinity is the devils single greatest weapon. It is delusion on the grandest scale and has caused more people to go to hell than any other thing that has ever come to us."
I said does that mean you believe that even if people repent, get baptized in Jesus' name, receive the HGB and live an overcoming life that they are eternally lost if they can't or are having a hard time shaking their trinitarian indoctrination? (this is not a hypothetical)
I also said, "If trinitarianism is a "doctrine of devils" (and I am oneness through and through) then what "demonic" activity does it lead those people into? What godless behavior does it promote? What is the "damnable action" those who subscribe to it engage in?
Care to address those, please?
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
The deal is that you said, "I believe that the doctrine of the trinity is the devils single greatest weapon. It is delusion on the grandest scale and has caused more people to go to hell than any other thing that has ever come to us."
I said does that mean you believe that even if people repent, get baptized in Jesus' name, receive the HGB and live an overcoming life that they are eternally lost if they can't or are having a hard time shaking their trinitarian indoctrination? (this is not a hypothetical)
I also said, "If trinitarianism is a "doctrine of devils" (and I am oneness through and through) then what "demonic" activity does it lead those people into? What godless behavior does it promote? What is the "damnable action" those who subscribe to it engage in?
Care to address those, please?
MOW, I realize that there are some people who have a trinitarian view of God but have obeyed Acts 2:38. I honestly believe that they have been obedient to the word of God and are not lost.
I know that some Water Spirit people differ with me on that view. Some believe without a revalation of the Mighty God in Christ, you serve another Jesus.
however, considering that the doctrine of the trinity, the vast vast vast majority of all trinitarians were and are baptized in the titles which is IMHO the same as not being baptzied.
in particular, that doctrine leads people into a false sense of salvational security. maybe they dont become adulterers or drunks but they are lost none the less.
I know you dont agree and that is fine with me. but if you are Water Spirit in doctrine, you believe there is only one door.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
MOW, I realize that there are some people who have a trinitarian view of God but have obeyed Acts 2:38. I honestly believe that they have been obedient to the word of God and are not lost.
I know that some Water Spirit people differ with me on that view. Some believe without a revalation of the Mighty God in Christ, you serve another Jesus.
however, considering that the doctrine of the trinity, the vast vast vast majority of all trinitarians were and are baptized in the titles which is IMHO the same as not being baptzied.
in particular, that doctrine leads people into a false sense of salvational security. maybe they dont become adulterers or drunks but they are lost none the less.
I know you dont agree and that is fine with me. but if you are Water Spirit in doctrine, you believe there is only one door.
Gee - seems someone mention being the door in the bible? Who was that?
Anyway - see this is the problem with oneness theology...well one of several.. you think salvation can be had by proper baptism.. THIS IS IN YOUR MIND the "one door" ... others think it to be Christ alone.. We find our salvation in Him alone, and that is BIBLICALLY SUFFICIENT
Gee - seems someone mention being the door in the bible? Who was that?
Anyway - see this is the problem with oneness theology...well one of several.. you think salvation can be had by proper baptism.. THIS IS IN YOUR MIND the "one door" ... others think it to be Christ alone.. We find our salvation in Him alone, and that is BIBLICALLY SUFFICIENT
"this is the problem with oneness theology"
Yep. that is the problem. or one of several.
sola, the problem is that youve been conditioned to believe that baptism constitutes "works"
you have come to believe either by teaching or your own discovery that anything beyond mental accent is works. I disagree. obedience is not works.
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My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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